BMW 1 Series M Coupe

I suppose it's the price tag, but I can't believe the soon-to-be-released 1M doesn't have it's own topic on GRM (or at least I couldn't find it).

Yes, it's still too heavy and too pricey and too complex. No, it's not much of a spiritual predescesor of the E30 M3. However, there's not exactly a surplus of small, powerful, RWD cars with a useable back seat being built these days. The RX8 is about the only one the comes to mind. The 911's back seats are a joke. Everything else seems to be AWD or FWD or too f-ing big.

I'm excited because I've been looking for something small and agile enough for my purposes, but nice enough that my wife would be willing to participate in the kind of ambitious cross-country road trips that I have in mind.

I'm trying to ignore the HPFP concerns, limited production, stupid teasing picture releases, etc.

I'd just like to hear everyone's thoughts in finding the balance of comfort/size/power/sport/practicality in new cars.

The 1-series has back seats?

LJD wrote: However, there's not exactly a surplus of small, powerful, RWD cars with a useable back seat being built these days. The RX8 is about the only one the comes to mind. The 911's back seats are a joke. Everything else seems to be AWD or FWD or too f-ing big.

I think you're forgetting the Hyundai Genesis Coupe and Ford Mustang. Neither are exactly "small", but they aren't much heavier than I project the M1 to be either.

The RX8 is nice, but I wouldn't call it powerful.

I think my next target is the Toyota FT-86 if they final product is similar to what we've been promised. Barring that, the V6 Mustang is awfully tempting. Under $25k, 30 mpg, 13 second quarter mile.

Maybe it's just me, but 1 series look useless. I don't think I could fit comfortably in the backseat, and I'm only 5'8". And aren't they within a few thousand of a 3 series? It just seems like a big gimmick to me.

I'd take a Genesis Coupe over a 1 series.

I believe GRM did a comparo between the 135i and the 335i a year or so ago. If anyone has an idea of the issue it might shed some light on the chassis.

same chassis as the 3 series.. just a shame we don't get the pretty 1.. the 3 door hatch. The 4 door is ugly and the coupe looks scrunched

The 1 series is about the exact size and ballpark weight that an E36 3 series was. It has a really nice cabin ( a little showy but comfortable). The 328i is a fantastic N/A motor. The 335 is a dual puffer and makes a ton of power so it seems like it should be a great car.

In reality, its ugly. Really, really ugly. It's also pretty expensive. I have had 2 students with them and they are numb, very understeery but really fast on a racetrack. If they weren't so ugly I would buy one, swap out the runflats, springs & sways for something less crappy and have a fantastic car. It's just that it would still be ugly. And expensive.

Oh, also an E46 M3 is beautiful, 1/2 the price and faster... an E36 M3 is better looking, 1/8th the price... and can be faster with some of that extra leftover dough spent on making it so.

Did I mention its ugly?

Matt B wrote: I believe GRM did a comparo between the 135i and the 335i a year or so ago. If anyone has an idea of the issue it might shed some light on the chassis.

Indeed. August 2008 issue, page 81. The cover looks like this:

Click here to get a copy from the store.

The 135i and 335i are very similar products. Price gap is about $6000, performance gap is 1/10th in the quarter and .04 in 0-60 runs. Rear seat space in the 335i is reasonable, less so in the 135i unless you're very, very small.

Great car on paper, but why so fugly? BMW M-Cars should make you pee yourself a little. Like this:

projected mid to upper $40s. Not particulary good looking. Makes a mustang GT look pretty good. That's not gonna make the bucket list.

I put the 1 into the "Fugly" catagory.

Just seems odd they could not design and build a prettier smaller car.. it worked for the E30 and E36

Mustang is not on my radar ... ubiquitous is an understatement where I live. Nothing against the quality of the car.

I'm surprised by the amount of comments regarding styling. Hard to say until we see it without camo, but I think it's pretty mean looking with the fender flares and CSL wheels. Anyway, if I really cared about styling, I'd be talking about this car in other forums.

I realize that a 335i (or the upcoming 335is) is even more practical, but the 1-series back seat is better than what you might expect. I need something that can fit two couples for evenings on the town, no long trips with more than two passengers. The 1-series works for me because we usually put the girls in the back anyway.

What kills me is that we all complain that there aren't enough small performance cars out there, but we never pony up for the smaller ones that are on the market, opting for something older, so the manufacturers never get the message.

LJD wrote: What kills me is that we all complain that there aren't enough small performance cars out there, but we never pony up for the smaller ones that are on the market, opting for something older, so the manufacturers never get the message.

If they continue to offer stuff I do not want - I'll continue to not buy it. If they offer something I might want but is still ugly... I'll continue to not buy it. If they offer something I really do want because its awesome and beautiful... I'll still let you depreciate it for me because I don't want to give them the idea that I'm willing to pay $50k for it either

A 128 3 door hatch would be my perfect DD.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: If they continue to offer stuff I do not want - I'll continue to not buy it. If they offer something I might want but is still ugly... I'll continue to not buy it. If they offer something I really do want because its awesome and beautiful... I'll still let you depreciate it for me because I don't want to give them the idea that I'm willing to pay $50k for it either

Your point is completely reasonable and well-taken, but I wouldn't want you on my football team. =P

LJD wrote: I need something that can fit two couples for evenings on the town, no long trips with more than two passengers. The 1-series works for me because we usually put the girls in the back anyway.

They must be very petite ladies. I'm just a little guy, and I wouldn't go out on the town in the back of a 1 series. I like the 1 series, they're great cars dynamically, but the space is too much of a compromise.

LJD wrote: Your point is completely reasonable and well-taken, but I wouldn't want you on my football team. =P

So, let us know what you buy when your team "grows-up" and the girls start complaining about the confined rear seating.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

LJD wrote: What kills me is that we all complain that there aren't enough small performance cars out there, but we never pony up for the smaller ones that are on the market, opting for something older, so the manufacturers never get the message.

If they continue to offer stuff I do not want - I'll continue to not buy it. If they offer something I might want but is still ugly... I'll continue to not buy it. If they offer something I really do want because its awesome and beautiful... I'll still let you depreciate it for me because I don't want to give them the idea that I'm willing to pay $50k for it either

This is the problem I have. I agree with both sides of this argument and don't see how it leads to any other conclusion than auto manufacturers not making cars that are attractive to us. Any new car that's close has a huge "but" attached to it. Out of good power-to-weight ratio, light weight, good suspension, and cheap, you're lucky to get three.

LJD wrote: Your point is completely reasonable and well-taken, but I wouldn't want you on my football team. =P

I don't play any games that only require one ball

In reply to pinchvalve:

even that e92 M3 doesnt make me pee a little except if i'm looking ONLY at the front. the rear half of that thing looks like any other boring 3 series with bigger wheels.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I don't play any games that only require one ball

That comment got me some nasty looks from a chick I was chatting to who likes sports (she also drag races and was doing her first auto-x last weekend).

Nonetheless, booo 1 series (ugly AS SIN).

When will BMW realize that they need to run something bigger than 225mm rubber up front in the non-M 1 series / 3 series? I think my 328is is under-tired all around, and the newer models (especially the 135 and 335s) have far more power than my measly engine and weigh several hundred pounds more.

I think that 245s up front in the 1 series M coupe are a good start, but I think they really need that size in the lesser models.

In reply to dj06482:

I think they are trying to tune the chassis response to understeer at the limit by specifying a relatively narrow tire at the front. Heck, my ginormous 750Li has 245/45R19 front to go with 275/40R19 rears - 245s on the front of a 3 series would be plenty wide. There are other reasons, like fuel economy (less frontal area and rolling resistance) and being able to go with narrower (cheaper/lighter) wheels.

pigeon wrote: In reply to dj06482: I think they are trying to tune the chassis response to understeer at the limit by specifying a relatively narrow tire at the front. Heck, my ginormous 750Li has 245/45R19 front to go with 275/40R19 rears - 245s on the front of a 3 series would be plenty wide. There are other reasons, like fuel economy (less frontal area and rolling resistance) and being able to go with narrower (cheaper/lighter) wheels.

That is another reason i am hating new cars more and more as well, they may look ok (Bigger wheels) but i would MUCH rather have bought my MS3 with 16 or 17's as opposed to the 18's.

Just don't really like the thought that before we know it 24in rims will be common on sport compacts.....

I just re-read my original post, and I meant to say "spiritual descendent" not "spiritual predecessor" of the E30 M3 ... Doh!

After all this talk about the 1-series back seat, I drove by the BMW dealer after work yesterday to actually sit in it myself. Conclusion: plenty big for us and our friends, and ingress and egress are excellent for a smallish coupe. Of course, my wife and are very athletic and below average stature, and most of our friends are fit/healthy as well. No, I’m not ashamed of my prejudice against impulse-eaters. =P

Anyway, as mentioned above, the extra tire under the M fenders is a significant upgrade in my mind as well. I imagine one could also do a bit better than 245F/265R with a set of track-day 18’s as well.