So that Boxster thread got me thinking. I'm going to pick up something fun in the next year or so, hopefully, and I noticed these three options are all roughly the same price range. Well the M3 is the cheapest but the others are close enough. They all have similar power and are fantastic from what I hear. Which would you spend your hard earned money on and why? I already have a vehicle that seats 5 so passenger space isn't an issue.
Is space for tires, a cooler, tools and gear? Then the M3 is the only choice for the guy who doesn't tow. Otherwise... seriously you can't go wrong here. It comes down to the personality you want and you owe itto yourself to drive an example of each on some twisty asphalt.
The M3 is fantastic driver's car with a sweet, smooth torque curve and super predictable handling that lets it play well above it's pay grade but... it's a sedan. All the things that are great about sedans apply. I've owned a couple and I love them but - I race them so they aren't streetable and it's a "devil you know" story for me now. You are comparing an attractive middle aged woman to a couple horny figure skaters. She is practical and knows how to dance... but if you don't need to leave with her for practical reasons... your hitting the ice here.
The Boxster S is a fantastic driver's car with ballerina moves. I have much want and will probably own one sooner or later. I've driven a few on track and they are really the answer to this question for me, today.
The S2000 is a fantastic driver's car with a manic, peaky motor that wants to rev at all times. It has the nicest feeling shifter/transmission I've ever driven. I personally love a rev happy pisser of a NA motor and for a 2 seater track car - but it would lose out to the Boxster S for top down cruising for the same reason. I'd tart one of these up with a cage and race it in a heartbeat though.
If fun is what you're looking for, I'd make the comparison of Boxster vs S2000 vs NC Miata. The M3 is nice but those cars are far more fun and rewarding to drive IMO.
I've never driven the S2000, but I currently own both of the others.
The M is a tank. Durable, sensible, predictable, and a proven winner. R compound tires turn her into a giant slayer. Really well engineered and, in my limited experience, a pleasure to wrench on. Great car. Just great. I autox'd the M with the PCA in their non-Porsche stock class and won a few. It even beat an Audi TT RS by a thousandth. Oh, and the damned thing appears to be appreciating as I beat the crap out of it.
The Boxster S is not a better car, but does all of the things that the M does better. I know that makes no sense. The Boxster is seat-of-the-pants faster, makes better noises, handles MUCH better, and just generally goes like hell. Or at least that is how it feels. The negative is that every interior piece feels like its ready to break off in your hand. Not that it actually does, but it just feels cheap. I haven't autox'd it, but it has to be faster than the M.
The crazy thing is that it's pretty obviously depreciating like mad. If you can find a decent, unmolested M, it will probably be worth more when you go to sell. The Boxster will be worth less. I know this is nuts, but a clean M3 will be worth twice what a Boxter S is worth within about two years.
my only issue with the boxster is the lack of access to the engine. I have never wrenched on the S2000.. but the M car is -very- easy to work on.
I hear midship is a pain if you plan on suspension upgrades, if the setup is wrong it can be bad as well as getting to the engine itself but im no expert..Gotta watch that snap oversteer too. The m3 is pretty cool. The straight 6 is beautiful and the design of the car itself is a beauty but are aftermarket parts availability as well as maintaining it and price worth the benefit ? I can be completely wrong on this. The s2k is nice too. Its a nice ride with lots of aftermarket support . Ive driven one personally and they are pretty small on the inside but it gives you a good feeling. A race car like feeling that i love. Just my .2 but i would say s2k! But its still a hard choice with the m3
At that price range i wouldnt rule out an un-molested fd rx7. Thats a hell of a car.
All great cars. I think you really have to be honest with yourself and your needs/wants. Assuming you own a Miata(profile pic), I think the S2000 is too close to a Miata. I have owned both Miata and S2000 and they are a lot alike. The S2000 is your answer if you want a Miata to the 2nd power:)
The Boxster is on my short list as well(Cayman actually). The IMS issue scares me enough to wait until 09+ cars get into my price range. My buddy has an early Cayman S and I have driven it in anger and it is sublime indeed!
E36 M3 really is the jack of all trades. Fantastic engine and chassis. I think these will go down as the sweet spot in the performance/simplicity trade-off and would expect these to start appreciating. It is probably as quick as the S2000 and Boxster in any contest of speed, but it isn't a two-seat convertible
If passenger space isn't an issue, S2k all the way, all day, every day. Cheapest to own of the 3 (the Boxster is in a different league of expense and PITA factor), best performance-for-dollars in mods, most potential, and best looking IMO.
I do not know about most potential and performance for dollars. I think the BMW edges it out. The E36 in M3 guise is fairly laid back engine wise. it's 240hp is a far cry from the 320 and European S50 made...
Don't think I do not like the S2000. An early one is on my bucketlist of cars to own.. but it is a fairly high strung car from the factory, Honda did not leave a lot on the table when they designed and built it
GameboyRMH wrote: If passenger space isn't an issue, S2k all the way, all day, every day. Cheapest to own of the 3 (the Boxster is in a different league of expense and PITA factor), best performance-for-dollars in mods, most potential, and best looking IMO.
+1
GameboyRMH wrote: If passenger space isn't an issue, S2k all the way, all day, every day. Cheapest to own of the 3 (the Boxster is in a different league of expense and PITA factor), best performance-for-dollars in mods, most potential, and best looking IMO.
I'll agree with cheapest to own, and possibly best looking but performance-for-dollars... an M3 is already as fast or faster out of the box, the torque makes it a charger out of corners even for the ham fisted...(the S2000 requires you to drive well to be fast) and can be MUCH faster pretty easily and in the same general price range as the Honda. It takes a puffer to get much more power out of the S2000 and that ruins the character of the car. They are supposed to be a frenetic momentum machine.
I love both but the reason to choose one over the other is a "true sports car vs the practical alternative" not really performance potential or penny saving.
Owned an E36 M3 and driven a non-S Boxster here. If practicality is not a major concern, Boxster all the way. The E36 is a very good handling sedan with a nice engine and decent power. The Boxster is a go-kart that sounds amazing and feels even better. The E36 interior is crap, and it looks like every other anonymous 90s sedan on the road. OTOH, it's easy to work on, parts are reasonable, and the aftermarket is very sizable. And loctiting the oil pump nut and replacing the cooling system is easier than dealing with IMS problems.
But if I didn't care about back seats, there's a very good chance I'd have a Boxster S right now instead of my GTO.
Tom_Spangler wrote: But if I didn't care about back seats, there's a very good chance I'd have a Boxster S right now instead of my (insert pretty much anything this side of Exige here).
QFT
I've codriven a ton of cars and after auto crossing a friends s2000 I went out and bought one a few months later. The car has a great fun factor, like a Miata turned up to 11. Driving the car at 9/10ths is pretty easy, but you have to drive it like a mad man to get the best out of it. That's what makes it fun for me. You really have to give it everything you've got and it's a great challenge (not to mention big fun!). The shifter is made from unicorn horns and rainbows. It's the best trans I've ever driven.
Maintanence is cake. Everything is easy to get to. Suspension bolts tend to seize up (like all Hondas) and the diffs can break if there is enough traction (I.e. Don't go to the drag strip). Engines are bullet proof, however the 00-03 models can experience cracks in the valve retainers and potentially drop a valve. Easy upgrade to the 04 and later retainers solves that worry.
The S2000 is a Mazda Miata that Honda took and made better in every single possible way. My only gripe is my general distaste of convertibles as track cars, and that hardtops for it cost real money.
Yeah, there isn't much tuning to be done to it, because it was awesome the day it left the factory. I fail to see how that's a bad thing. And from my experience in STR, there is a lot more that you can do to it than you think.
Honda S2000 is probably one of the best cars ever made.
(Oh, I was reading my associate handbook yesterday, and I'm required to state that I'm employed by Honda, and my opinions do not reflect that of Honda).
Can I throw C5 Z06 in here so I can watch what happens?
hah! Finally a comparison where I have had seat time in all cars.
M3 is the GT in this comparison. I am assuming by price you are looking at E36 M3s. So if you want a fun little car, like everyone else you have S2000 compared to the Boxster is the real comparison.
They are so different in driving experience. One is this ballistic high revving screaming cut in half NA F1 motor that begs you to do everything you can to hit redline. Each. And. Every. Shift! The other is a well balanced scalpel the uses the speed limit signs for curves as the base number for an exponent in your final speed.
Other comparison threads have said and I will just repeat it, the Boxster is the best handling out of the two and the S2000 is the power train darling. That isn't to say the other can't do that either. The Boxster has a wonderful motor in it. Great sounds and a joy, it just isn't the Honda. The S2000 can turn and burn better than 98% of the cars on the road, but it doesn't have the feedback of the Boxster.
So I guess it boils down to your preference. Both cars are better at what they do that 99% of everything else on the road. You really can't go wrong with either, unless you look at the down sides.
Porsche maintenance is expensive, motors tend to blow, (but if you get an S Renegade now has a LS conversion for it.) Interior doesn't look the best.
Honda, depending on model transmission issue, every kid who saw F&F will want to play Race Wars with you.
In the end, I will just say GET IT! Doesn't matter which one just GET IT!!!
singleslammer wrote: Can I throw C5 Z06 in here so I can watch what happens?
Pretty good price jump.
imarcr2 wrote: All great cars. I think you really have to be honest with yourself and your needs/wants. Assuming you own a Miata(profile pic), I think the S2000 is too close to a Miata. I have owned both Miata and S2000 and they are a lot alike. The S2000 is your answer if you want a Miata to the 2nd power:)
The miata in my avatar is my old car. Sold it to a guy who wanted a track toy up at Thunderhill about three years ago. I've been without a sports car since (which is terrible). My 4Runner doesn't quite cut it.
So how bad are the maintenance costs with the Porsche? Is it possible to downsize from 18" wheels? I figure the S2000 is cheap (it's still a honda) and the E36 M3 isn't too bad from what I can tell.
A more direct comparison would be a Z3 M-Roadster. An M3 is just a different animal than the others. With any of these choices you really can't lose as they are all great cars.
** if it's a toy, and you can afford potentially large maintenance bills---- Boxster S. I've spent time in all of the above, and it's the most satisfying driving experience, and the best sounding. It also has the potential to be much, much more expensive than the other two to keep on the road.
** if it's a toy and you can't afford large maintenance bills---- Honda S2000. Fun, peaky, fast when you are beating the Hell out of it, and Honda reliability. I find the interior cramped and gimmicky, and they aren't a good choice for long distances, but as a track toy / fun car they are hard to beat. Funny to see other's comments, as I find these the least good-looking of the 3. (to be fair they are all pretty nice designs)
** if you need a real car that also happens to kick ass----- M3. Yes, you'll need to replace the cooling system, and re-attach the headliner and door panels. However, it's a great jack of all trades car that is also easy to work on, cheap to maintain, and always a pleasure to drive. It isn't a two seater convertible though.....
I'd add C5 vert, and M-Roadster / M-Coupe to this list...but that's just me.
Tom_Spangler wrote:singleslammer wrote: Can I throw C5 Z06 in here so I can watch what happens?Pretty good price jump.
I saw one go on ebay for 10.4k the other day. It had a salvage title but I have seen non-wrecked higher mileage units go for 15.
Joe Gearin wrote: I'd add C5 vert, and M-Roadster / M-Coupe to this list...but that's just me.
And I got called out on a price jump!
The M-coupes are now in collector territory. Good luck finding one that hasn't had the E36 M3 kicked out of it for under 20K.
Also, M-roadster and coupe still have trailing arms. Doesn't his cause instadeath?!
thatsnowinnebago wrote:imarcr2 wrote: All great cars. I think you really have to be honest with yourself and your needs/wants. Assuming you own a Miata(profile pic), I think the S2000 is too close to a Miata. I have owned both Miata and S2000 and they are a lot alike. The S2000 is your answer if you want a Miata to the 2nd power:)The miata in my avatar is my old car. Sold it to a guy who wanted a track toy up at Thunderhill about three years ago. I've been without a sports car since (which is terrible). My 4Runner doesn't quite cut it. So how bad are the maintenance costs with the Porsche? Is it possible to downsize from 18" wheels? I figure the S2000 is cheap (it's still a honda) and the E36 M3 isn't too bad from what I can tell.
I'm currently working on a series of articles that answer most of your questions. Without having tested this theory, you should be able to use 17s with the Boxster S calipers. It may require a spacer. YMMV...
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