Brake rotors "warping" - do I just need better pads?

Not my racecar, but rather the family trickster. 2010 Honda Odyssey. All stock. Daily driving applications.

Current have significant vibration when applying the brakes, something that would have traditionally been called "rotor warpage" but I think I've learned it is actually uneven transfer of pad material to the rotor.

The problem is, our previous ody did this too, and this one did this, then I replaced the brakes (they needed to be done anyway), and now it's back again. I'd love to actually fix the problem. If I go out and get the brakes nice and hot and then let them cool, it'll be better for a while, but always comes back. I don't know if this matters, but it always seems worst after a long stretch on the highway, like 2+ hours.

It struck me that I may just be selecting the wrong pads. Because I'm a cheap bastard, I usually buy the cheapest options at rockauto, but now I'm wondering if that's the root cause. Seems like I shouldn't have to go to Honda directly for pads, but maybe I should be looking for a higher quality pad when I replace these brakes again. Organic? Semi-metalic? I don't know what those things mean either.

Am I onto something here? Could it really be just crappy pads? Or should I be looking elsewhere for the cause?

Are you getting the cheapest rotors too?  Cheap rotors warp easily.

SkinnyWife's Infiniti warps rotors, I just cut them every couple years and keep the same still thick pads.

I've been told they are warping because I'm using ceramic pads.  The rotors were not "cheap."

When the pads are done, I'm going cheap on pads.

Rule of thumb at Camp Mofo:

When replacing brakes buy the mid level rotor available at NAPA or Parts Plus and the entry level ceramic. 

The HR-V is due up for a set, the Silverado is still about 25k out and the Forester will need a set more than likely. The Vette is still the best used car I've ever bought, it has brand new rotors and pads. 

I bet they are undersized, but I would buy factory Honda pads and try thise. Honda pads were never expensive when I needed them. 

Most common cause of warpage is heat. What might be heating the rotors - sticking / dragging pads, blocked air flow.

Do you bed the pads in when you install?  I remember somewhere years ago (prbably GRM) reading to go out and do several hard stops from 60-5mph to get them good and hot, then park overnight for them to cool down to ambient before driving again.

Have you tried re-bedding them?

Akebono has been the OEM pad supplier for the Odyssey for a couple decades now. Their "Pro-ACT" ceramic pads are the best I've found for avoiding this exact situation on this exact vehicle. The recipe is pretty close to, and maybe even the same as, the OEM formulation.

we are closing in on 500k miles between our 2003 and our 2010 Odys, and I was the lead engineer on the Ody front caliper project  when I was at Mando. Honda dictated that we use Akebono's pad material, because they had a long and trouble-free history with it.

$56 front axle and $51 rear:

https://www.tirerack.com/brakes/results.jsp?autoMake=Honda&autoModel=Odyssey&autoYear=2010&autoModClar=EX-L

Depending on what cheap-ass pads OP has installed, and especially if they are one of the many "ceramic" pads, they don't re-bed well because they don't have the abrasive content that old-school formulations had. Ceramics were developed specifically to *not* wear the rotors. Low dust, low noise, longish life. Those are the ceramic pads' strengths.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)

... and I was the lead engineer on the Ody front caliper project  when I was at Mando. 

I'm curious ... what's Mando location did you work at?  Production plant, or R&D center?

The 4X100 Hodas are really sensitive to over-torquing the lug nuts.

Probably not your problem, but I thought I'd throw it out there...

There is also a trick that I'm told works, but have yet to try.

Buy the cheapest metallic sintered pads you can find.  When you get the pulsing, install those pads and do a whole bunch of hard 60-0.  Actually, you should do 60-2, so the rotors never stop against the pad.  Then drive for a while to cool them, then put the good pads back on.

Redneck turned rotors

Slippery said:

I bet they are undersized, but I would buy factory Honda pads and try thise. Honda pads were never expensive when I needed them. 

Came in here to say this. 

Whatever you do, after you change the brakes, I would bed them properly, then keep the car moving until they've cooled down (as much as possible, every time they get hot). Pad transfer is something that happens when you stop the car while the brakes are hot, especially if you sit with your foot on the brakes.

In reply to einy (Forum Supporter) :

R&D in Novi MI

Is there a regular circumstance in the vans life where you make a fairly aggressive stop from fairly high speed,  then sit at a stop with foot on the brakes for an extended time?

Streetwiseguy said:

Is there a regular circumstance in the vans life where you make a fairly aggressive stop from fairly high speed,  then sit at a stop with foot on the brakes for an extended time?

Good question, I was wondering that myself. 

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Sounds like my wife's commute. Maybe that's why her brakes are doing the same thing. 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

Streetwiseguy said:

Is there a regular circumstance in the vans life where you make a fairly aggressive stop from fairly high speed,  then sit at a stop with foot on the brakes for an extended time?

Good question, I was wondering that myself. 

It's totally a thing.  I ticked myself off.  I was towing a 3500-lb boat with the Branger a few years ago.  Fresh rotors, pads, reman calipers, the works.  I was going down a mountain (light braking because I had it in 2nd) up around the finger lakes, and suddenly around a blind curve, there was a stop sign.  Not only did I have to superheat the brakes to stop, I had to wait a while at the stop sign for traffic.  I tried the parking brake so I could get my foot off the pedal, but it wouldn't hold the load.  Sure enough, started pulsing right away.  500 miles and I was buying new rotors again.  Fortunately, they only cost $18, but they're the kind that is cast in with the hub, which meant grease and dealing with bearing preloads.

My old Sienna was doing this and I found a siezed slider pin on one of the front calipers. IIRC it was integral to the caliper bracket and I ended up replacing the whole bracket. 

I have the same issue with my tow rig after driving through the hills (towing). I am SUPER careful to keep the rotors turning when hot but no matter how tentative I am she still gets the same stupid pad transfer issue and starts vibrating at the front axle. Watching this with intent.

I almost never have trouble with rotors, but my normal driving habit is to brake only when necessary and I coast a lot.  If I'm rolling up to a red light, I lift waaay back and roll up.   If I am forced to brake suddenly to a stop, I will consciously not clamp the brakes on, but rather creep forward with minimal pedal pressure.

1988RedT2 said:

... I will consciously not clamp the brakes on, but rather creep forward with minimal pedal pressure.

Keith Tanner, paging Keith Tanner to the pedal force line. Keith Tanner, please.

Good thoughts here, let me try to answer some questions. 

1. Neither my wife or I have a regular commute, so no hard stops followed by sitting on the brakes regularly. Of course that may happen during regular driving, but both of us are not aggressive drivers so hard braking is rare.
2. I've noticed that the vibrations seem to be worst after long highway trips with very little to zero braking. 
3. Yes, guilty of cheap rotors too.
4. I can re-bed the brakes, and it does help, but vibrations always come back.