NOHOME wrote:z31maniac wrote: Because the Frisbee is a bespoke platform with a bespoke engine. That always cost more.This. The FRS/BRZ combination will sell very few units in comparison to the WRX and yet it needs to recover it's investment. Also, it is still pulling full list price last time I checked.
Nope, got a phone call from the dealer a few minutes ago trying to get me back in NOW instead of later and the BRZ will be less than sticker, just not as much less as the WRX.
We got to flog a BRZ & a WRX back to back on Monday.
We drove freeway, fast cloverleafs, country service roads, corners, curves, cones, etc. My wife & I had a ball, well so did the salesman.
We began with the BRz since I thought my wife would be impressed with the power of the WRX and that would make her think the BRZ was underpowered. Turned out not to be a problem.
Let me start with the negatives. The side rear view mirrors appear to be angled down. They aren't really, but the top of the mirror angles down to make it appear that the mirrors turn down. That wouldn't be any kind of issue except that the 3/4 rear view has a big blind spot due to the fastback nature of the roofline. We only noticed that to be a problem when exiting the freeways. We couldn't tell if we were merging into a car.
That's it. All the things I thought were going to be issues weren't. Sure I'd like more HP, but I'd want more on a Ferrari. The power was quite good.
I'd heard someone on here complain about the power cut at redline, so we bumped it a lot on purpose. Not a big deal. It cuts the power instead of letting you ride the redline but it truly wasn't a big deal. I've been in lots of cars that cut it the same way.
The BRZ is form fitting. It fits like a glove. I'm 6' and had plenty of head & leg room. Turns out there's enough room in the back seat for a fat man. I'd have never guessed it. It's not cross country room, but it is cross town room.
BTW it will get 2nd gear scratch with a fat guy in the back. And I wasn't really trying to. 
There's more storage in the car than I thought there would be. The trunk is more generous than I thought plus the back seat folds down to give you a lot more room. My wife mentally packed the car for a Route 66 & Pacific Coast Hwy jaunt we want to make and pronounced it more than adequate.
The dash is much better on the BRZ than the WRX.
The BRZ made the WRX feel ponderous. And the power delivery on the WRX made it feel like it wasn't any more powerful than the BRZ. The WRX didn't launch quite as hard and less bottom end power plus the turbos kicked in quite softly so it just didn't feel quite as fast. It was quicker which was shown in the times and the speeds we reached, it just didn't feel quicker.
I know the WRX isn't ponderous, but driving it back to back to the BRZ reminded me of the 70's GM stationwagons. The BRZ was a scalpel and the WRX was a sledgehammer. Responses were no where near as sharp or quick.
They are not cars you'd normally consider as options for each other, but since the price is virtually identical you have to compare them. The BRZ shouldn't be the same price. It is properly priced at the $19,900 that they originally said it would cost.
We haven't looked at the FRS but we won't spring for the track suspension on either since it
I really wish there was a place around here where I could go take a BRZ or FRS out for a test drive. Tiff saw one at the grocery store and approved. Maybe if I manage to work my way into a decent job here soon...
I know this is all subjective, but I almost think maybe you drove the cars in the wrong order. After pushing a high-revving N/A engine, you drive the turbo car the same by default, and the lack of linear power off-boost is sooooo appparent. The WRX feels oddly slow to me when I get out of my 140hp M42 e30, honestly. But once I get back into the "right way" to drive it, the WRX feels exponentially faster. With the VF52, the WRX really needs to be driven in boost, and that takes a while to get used to if you don't regularly drive a turbo car (I came out of a V6 Maxima, so it took me a while to get over the "where is the instant torque" thing until I learned to keep the boost up).
Just my 2 cents, and I haven't driven a BRZ except for around the access road at work, so I didn't get to push it much. I still want to, though. The thought of a BRZ with a few mods makes me drool.....if it wasn't for needing a DD that can handle the worst winter weather :P
nocones wrote: I know real world WRX is 23 with a 50/50 city highway mix. I'll get 27 on highway trips and around 20-21 if I'm all in town. At the Evo school I got 4mpg and put ~80 miles on the car.
I'll more or less second that. My commute is lousy (Washington DC). My typical tank is about 24mpg and that's pretty much a dead-even 50/50, and I've done the same commute for 5 years in that car now (lightly tuned).
I've pulled 29~30 on highway trips on smaller highways where I kept the speed below 65 and drove "smoothly". It drops to 27 like you say on a big highway like I-95 where I'm doing 85 and doing a lot of passing and such.
Irish if you'll notice I did say the times and speeds were faster on the WRX, it was just the subjective feel of the 2 cars. Now had I driven the Sti I believe it would have felt more like the BRZ than the WRX did.
And actually I wouldn't call the BRZ a high revving car, but then again I drive an S2000.
The red-line cut-out is a bit disconcerting when it happens during a passing move.
Other than that, since you will only be hitting it a few times a day it is not a big deal.
The blindspot is an ongoing issue; this car is not well suited for traffic carving maneuvers. Yes, you can be very meticulous about mirror adjustment and train yourself to trust that method. At least I hear that you can, I cant. I crane my head a lot to be sure. Have not yet tried the small convex mirrors, but they might help.
Reversing is another concern in that I live on a school route and the little runts are well below my line of rear view sight. So is anything else so parallel parking is another skill to work on.
Learn to shift before hitting the fuel cutoff. Problem solved.
From my point of view the WRX is going to be the better fun practical daily driver, especially in the great white north. But if I didnt have a separate racecar I could easily be swayed to the FRS. The BRZ doesnt make sense to me, I dont want to pay more money to get a car thats heavier than it needs to be because of a bunch of options I dont care about. As a dual purpose car the FRS makes more sense than the BRZ or the WRX.
mr2peak wrote: Learn to shift before hitting the fuel cutoff. Problem solved.
That's as simplistic as saying never speed and you won't get speeding tickets. There are times that's not possible.
I agree that the WRX's softer red line cut would be better if you hit it in the midst of a corner, but the BRZ's wouldn't be the end of the world.
Leafy wrote: From my point of view the WRX is going to be the better fun practical daily driver, especially in the great white north. But if I didnt have a separate racecar I could easily be swayed to the FRS. The BRZ doesnt make sense to me, I dont want to pay more money to get a car thats heavier than it needs to be because of a bunch of options I dont care about. As a dual purpose car the FRS makes more sense than the BRZ or the WRX.
You obviously haven't driven the BRZ. And the extra options comment is appropriate to every car on the market.
But I do agree that the added room of the WRX does expand the range of people who might buy it.
I know it'll never happen, but I'd love to see a "shooting brake" BRZ. Almost as much the cargo volume as the WRX. Easier to justify as an every day car...
mr2peak wrote: Learn to shift before hitting the fuel cutoff. Problem solved.
Was bit tongue in cheek. However, the car is close coupled what with 6 gears. 5 speed would have been better.
Day to day shift pattern is more like 1-2-4. Cruise at 3k rpm.
kreb wrote: I know it'll never happen, but I'd love to see a "shooting brake" BRZ. Almost as much the cargo volume as the WRX. Easier to justify as an every day car...
Stop and look at the BRZ, with the fold down rear seat, which I had no idea it had, you've got quite a bit of space.
carguy123 wrote: Irish if you'll notice I did say the times and speeds were faster on the WRX, it was just the subjective feel of the 2 cars. Now had I driven the Sti I believe it would have felt more like the BRZ than the WRX did. And actually I wouldn't call the BRZ a high revving car, but then again I drive an S2000.
yeah I just meant the feel. There is no question that the WRX is much faster on paper. I will say, however, that an STi doesn't feel any faster than a VF52 WRX, having driven many of them. They're only about 20hp difference and the WRX is lighter. The key toys on the STi (DCCD, diffs, etc) don't make it feel any faster on the street, really. Actually, an 09 WRX is about 1/10th quicker in the 1/4 than an 09 STi, stock for stock. Mostly because of the extra shift.
The feel is much quicker and more razor sharp in the BRZ than the WRX so I get what you mean.
Interestingly the BRZ was just what I was hoping it would be, but the WRX was a slight disappointment by comparison.
When I hopped into the Legacy to drive home the WRX was definitely a huge step up from there tho.
carguy123 wrote: The feel is much quicker and more razor sharp in the BRZ than the WRX so I get what you mean. Interestingly the BRZ was just what I was hoping it would be, but the WRX was a slight disappointment by comparison. When I hopped into the Legacy to drive home the WRX was definitely a huge step up from there tho.
For the WRX to be the way it "should" be from the factory, it needs 3 things: 1. poly steering rack bushings (make a HUGE difference for low $$) 2. a light tune (to tune out the lean condition at mid-boost that is there for emissions) 3. a bit more spring rate and better dampers.
Subaru could have made the WRX so much better from the factory for so little additional cost, but I guess they had to keep it a bit "watered down" so as not to take sales from the STi. Oh well, not like most people leave em stock anyhow :)
I just drove a co-worker's new Genesis 2.0T today though - and aside from the fact that she got the automatic, I was really impressed by the car overall.
Regardless of what car I get I know I'll rip out the old suspension and put coilovers & new sway bars on it. That solves most of the ills of the stock tunes.
I haven't checked into it yet, but I'm hoping there's not anything special that goes on the handling package that would be super expensive to upgrade too other than those items. On some cars getting that upgrade is the only way to get the bigger brakes or a special interior or a this or a that. In that case I can still upgrade and sell the upgraded parts to someone who bought the base model.
carguy123 wrote: When I hopped into the Legacy to drive home the WRX was definitely a huge step up from there tho.
How old is your Legacy? You keep comparing the two, but they are in completely separate leagues.
2011 so not that old.
Ok, so how is the WRX a huge step up?
Every Legacy/Outback I've sat in since model year 2005 has been a nice place to be, borderering an entry level luxury car, whereas the WRX's have been a real nice entry level or boy-racer type car. Much more utilitarian. Frankly the driving experiences can't be compared because one is a family sedan, the other is a hot compact.
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