I think this has been asked before but I couldn't find it through Search. Any suggestions for a decent gearbox? IIRC the Camaro/Firebird may have been a source...
I think this has been asked before but I couldn't find it through Search. Any suggestions for a decent gearbox? IIRC the Camaro/Firebird may have been a source...
Anything 60* v6 GM.
I think the easy button is gathering 4th gen F-body hardware as mentioned. However, and I have no first hand experience with this so grains of salt etc; https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_GM_bellhousing_patterns states that it's part of the '60 Degree' bellhousing family so there should be a whole pile of options if you want to dig for some funny options.
Technically you need a trans with a left side starter pocket. Chevy rear drive engines had the starter on the right, which is in the way of the transmission in a front driver. Iron head 2.8/3.1 V6s had drive type specific blocks, RWD had the starter on the right, FWD had the starter on the left.
All Buick 3800 and 2.5l fours had front wheel drive blocks, so they have the starter on the left. (Same for 3100/3400/3500/3900 but they never put those in a rear drive chassis* ) Some bellhousings have dual starter pockets, some left only, some right only. Given that the starter bolts to the engine I don't see why one couldn't "convert" a right hand only bellhousing with a reciprocating saw, but there may be clutch actuation reasons too.
* Chevy kept using the iron head 3.1 in the 4th gen Camaro, they never made a rear drive 3100/3400. Such a shame. Then the mid cycle refresh got them the 3800
The factory manual with the 3800 was ye olde T5. They switched from Chevy pattern to Ford pattern in later years.
In reply to obsolete :
IIRC the change happened when Chevy started using the T56 in the F bodies. At that point there was no more real need for Chevy pattern T5s and the Ford pattern, which most other manufacturers used anyway, made more financial sense. Probably cheaper for GM to cast up different bellhousings than for Borg Warner to charge them for their own specific transmission case.
Check input shaft length, something in the back of my mind says Chevys with the Ford pattern had a longer input shaft. And of course, the good Ford gearsets are WC with 23 tooth input shafts and they never made a WC Chevy input with 23 teeth, and all Chevys with good ratios were NWC. Grr. (I would like a Chevy size 23t input for something, because Ford spline clutch disks in import-small are crazy expensive)
An 84 to 85 Cherokee with the 2.8 will provide a bellhousing that can be bolted to an AX15 giving you the ability to attach the 3800 to an AX15 which is effectively an R154/AR5.
A 97 trough 2002 camaro v6 t5 is the answer. It is a wc Ford pattern Trans with a 60 degree bell housing.
That's what the 97 through 2002 Camaros had as a base engine (3800).
It will bolt right up to any of the 60 degree blocks as well.
I have one in my 3900 v6 powered rx8 and 1 in my 3500 v6 rx7. Dusterbd has one in his 3400 powered miata.
It's literally the Trans that came with that engine in the later 4th gen f bodies.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Technically you need a trans with a left side starter pocket. Chevy rear drive engines had the starter on the right, which is in the way of the transmission in a front driver. Iron head 2.8/3.1 V6s had drive type specific blocks, RWD had the starter on the right, FWD had the starter on the left.
All Buick 3800 and 2.5l fours had front wheel drive blocks, so they have the starter on the left. (Same for 3100/3400/3500/3900 but they never put those in a rear drive chassis* ) Some bellhousings have dual starter pockets, some left only, some right only. Given that the starter bolts to the engine I don't see why one couldn't "convert" a right hand only bellhousing with a reciprocating saw, but there may be clutch actuation reasons too.
* Chevy kept using the iron head 3.1 in the 4th gen Camaro, they never made a rear drive 3100/3400. Such a shame. Then the mid cycle refresh got them the 3800
The 94 through 96 camaros were 3.4 liter with the crappy heads.
Not the 3400. Although putting a 3400 in an early 4th gen is pretty straightforward.
buzzboy said:An 84 to 85 Cherokee with the 2.8 will provide a bellhousing that can be bolted to an AX15 giving you the ability to attach the 3800 to an AX15 which is effectively an R154/AR5.
The AMC-based 2.5 also used the Metric bellhousing, probably so it could use the same transmissions as the 2.8. Starter pocket is on the wrong side for the 3800 so it will need to be clearanced, Clarence, but it is a lot easier to find since I think most four cylinder Wranglers had manual transmissions.
Pictured: 1997 Wrangler transmission
There's something to be said here for design choices outlasting the original reason for the decision.
wvumtnbkr said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:Technically you need a trans with a left side starter pocket. Chevy rear drive engines had the starter on the right, which is in the way of the transmission in a front driver. Iron head 2.8/3.1 V6s had drive type specific blocks, RWD had the starter on the right, FWD had the starter on the left.
All Buick 3800 and 2.5l fours had front wheel drive blocks, so they have the starter on the left. (Same for 3100/3400/3500/3900 but they never put those in a rear drive chassis* ) Some bellhousings have dual starter pockets, some left only, some right only. Given that the starter bolts to the engine I don't see why one couldn't "convert" a right hand only bellhousing with a reciprocating saw, but there may be clutch actuation reasons too.
* Chevy kept using the iron head 3.1 in the 4th gen Camaro, they never made a rear drive 3100/3400. Such a shame. Then the mid cycle refresh got them the 3800
The 94 through 96 camaros were 3.4 liter with the crappy heads.
Not the 3400. Although putting a 3400 in an early 4th gen is pretty straightforward.
Derp. I knew that but.... it's been a long day at work, yeah? 
Putting the 3400 heads on the 3.4 block will net you something like 12:1 compression, too! It's kind of a shame that the block geometry limits you for how much cam you can put in, the roller lifters' length limits you for how much lobe lift you can get. The cam is really close to the deck. And I am cheap but I am not sure I could trust a new flat-tappet camshaft in 2023, core quality for that sort of thing fell off dramatically once the OEMs stopped using them.
This is a 3800 T5, supposedly the transmission to bellhousing pattern is Ford, which seems right when looking at it. This was going into a MGB but I sold that car. Still have it along with a 99 Camaro 3800 S2.
wvumtnbkr said:A 97 trough 2002 camaro v6 t5 is the answer. It is a wc Ford pattern Trans with a 60 degree bell housing.
That's what the 97 through 2002 Camaros had as a base engine (3800).
It will bolt right up to any of the 60 degree blocks as well.
I have one in my 3900 v6 powered rx8 and 1 in my 3500 v6 rx7. Dusterbd has one in his 3400 powered miata.
It's literally the Trans that came with that engine in the later 4th gen f bodies.
What he said.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
is the open market value on that wrangler trans worth grabbing from a U-pull? one just showed up locally, price list says $125 plus $40 core. if it's worth $500, i might have a go at it on Saturday.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Putting the 3400 heads on the 3.4 block will net you something like 12:1 compression, too! It's kind of a shame that the block geometry limits you for how much cam you can put in, the roller lifters' length limits you for how much lobe lift you can get. The cam is really close to the deck.
what's the rocker ratio on the 3400? and can it be increased?
EDIT: this thread is suggesting that a supercharged 3800 could be turned north/south and coupled to a manual trans, yes? sure, there's some fab work to be done, but the main bits are GM?
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Aussies did it. Supercharged 3800 was an option in some Holden.
I'd like to see how they did that, the transverse setup has half the supercharger hanging over the trans, and the throttle body bolts to that.... in an F body the MAF would be in the vicinity of the radio 
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Looks like they just turned it north-south and ran what looks like a 180 degree elbow to the airbox. This was in a 1996 Holden Commodore . Got this picture from an AU forum, boostcruising.com.
Here's a better picture, this one appears to be mostly stock
Yep. I helped a guy (a tiny bit) put one (supercharged 3800) in a gremlin with the 4th gen t5 behind it.
It was surprisingly quick.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15371690/lemons-new-york-inspections-many-2002s-greatest-forced-induction-amc-battle-in-history/
Those coil packs give me PTSD. I had a milk crate full of them from the junkyard for my 95 Firebird with a 3.8. They would always fail at the most inconvenient times.
In reply to DirtyBird222 :
Maybe because they were from the junkyard? 
The coils lasted fine as long as you replaced the spark plugs before they were bad enough to cause a misfire. Since few people did this, the coils died often.
wvumtnbkr said:Yep. I helped a guy (a tiny bit) put one (supercharged 3800) in a gremlin with the 4th gen t5 behind it.
i would rock that like it's back ain't got no bones
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:is the open market value on that wrangler trans worth grabbing from a U-pull? one just showed up locally, price list says $125 plus $40 core. if it's worth $500, i might have a go at it on Saturday.
The AX5 is an absolute garbage transmission, but the bellhousing is worthwhile for the 60° swap.
wvumtnbkr said:Yep. I helped a guy (a tiny bit) put one (supercharged 3800) in a gremlin with the 4th gen t5 behind it.It was surprisingly quick.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15371690/lemons-new-york-inspections-many-2002s-greatest-forced-induction-amc-battle-in-history/
It was a rad car with the 3800SC but now with the 455 it friggin screams!
buzzboy said:AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:is the open market value on that wrangler trans worth grabbing from a U-pull? one just showed up locally, price list says $125 plus $40 core. if it's worth $500, i might have a go at it on Saturday.
The AX5 is an absolute garbage transmission, but the bellhousing is worthwhile for the 60° swap.
good to know. bellhousing $20 with $2 core.
06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Looks like they just turned it north-south and ran what looks like a 180 degree elbow to the airbox. This was in a 1996 Holden Commodore . Got this picture from an AU forum, boostcruising.com.
Here's a better picture, this one appears to be mostly stock
Looks like a completely different supercharger housing, with a radically curved inlet so the throttle points forward.
Not something one could accomplish with North American parts without a TIG and some decent fab skills.
'Course, I'd always wondered about cutting the snout down to the bare minimum in length, flipping the snout so the pulley is on the other side, and then turning the blower around and running it off of a jackshaft. That is the way the older Magnusson LS1 units worked so the throttle body could sit more or less where the LS1/LS6 unit did.
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