"But it'll never handle..."

Tuning issues or not... it's got a strong low miles clutch in it, isn't slipping, and still made 245whp/238wtq on FM's dyno. (Blouch/Deadbolt upgraded turbo)

That said... i'm guessing that even the Yoko Paradas that are on the car are a bit better than whatever Fuzions are on Joe's car.

Swank Force One wrote: Tuning issues or not... it's got a strong low miles clutch in it, isn't slipping, and still made 245whp/238wtq on FM's dyno. (Blouch/Deadbolt upgraded turbo) That said... i'm guessing that even the Yoko Paradas that are on the car are a bit better than whatever Fuzions are on Joe's car.

Now you guys have me curious. bring each to your local drag strip and report trap speeds.

Joe Gearin wrote: Ok, to be fair......my FM equipped car is currently running on "Fuzion" tires that are about as sticky as granite. This will change soon, but in the meantime I'm doing my best Vaughn Gittin Jr. impersonation.

Tires and temperatures are everything.

My car spins the Neovas in 3rd when they're cold, but they hook up in 2nd when it's warm. Warm Hoosier A6s will hook up in 1st. 1st is over twice the torque multiplication of 3rd.

tuna55 wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Tuning issues or not... it's got a strong low miles clutch in it, isn't slipping, and still made 245whp/238wtq on FM's dyno. (Blouch/Deadbolt upgraded turbo) That said... i'm guessing that even the Yoko Paradas that are on the car are a bit better than whatever Fuzions are on Joe's car.

Now you guys have me curious. bring each to your local drag strip and report trap speeds.

At the $2011 Challenge I drove this same car (at current boost levels) through the 1/4 in 13.6 IIRC at 106 mph or so. This was on a very hot day with traction issues off the line. I'm pretty confident with that on a cooler day with proper rubber the car is capable of a low 13, or even very high 12 second 1/4. mile.

Yeah there's no way in hell my car is trapping 106mph. That's almost what my MX6 was trapping down at the Challenge, and even wounded in ridiculously hot weather, there's no way my Miata is even in the same league as that thing.

I'm down to give it a shot in Spring, though.

Joe Gearin wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Tuning issues or not... it's got a strong low miles clutch in it, isn't slipping, and still made 245whp/238wtq on FM's dyno. (Blouch/Deadbolt upgraded turbo) That said... i'm guessing that even the Yoko Paradas that are on the car are a bit better than whatever Fuzions are on Joe's car.

Now you guys have me curious. bring each to your local drag strip and report trap speeds.

At the $2011 Challenge I drove this same car (at current boost levels) through the 1/4 in 13.6 IIRC at 106 mph or so. This was on a very hot day with traction issues off the line. I'm pretty confident with that on a cooler day with proper rubber the car is capable of a low 13, or even very high 12 second 1/4. mile.

Assuming that's the general performance, the HP/trap speed calculators say you're making 230 hp (assuming your curb weight is 2300 lb). So let's hear what Celicaha... I mean swankfo... I mean ol' sillyname says about his.

I See he posted. OK, if you're laying down 245 and you haven't poured cement in your trunk or anything you should be trapping somewhere in there. If you're not, something may be wrong.

tuna55 wrote: I See he posted. OK, if you're laying down 245 and you haven't poured cement in your trunk or anything you should be trapping somewhere in there. If you're not, something may be wrong.

Not only that, but i believe my gearing is probably even shorter than his, and i do NOT have traction problems.

I'll run it in spring and see what happens. It'll be on the dyno again in Spring as well.

Swank Force One wrote:

tuna55 wrote: I See he posted. OK, if you're laying down 245 and you haven't poured cement in your trunk or anything you should be trapping somewhere in there. If you're not, something may be wrong.

Not only that, but i believe my gearing is probably even shorter than his, and i do NOT have traction problems. I'll run it in spring and see what happens. It'll be on the dyno again in Spring as well.

Bring it to me to play with for, uhh, let me check my schedule, a summer, and I'll return it trapping 106.

or you could take the advice of your signature and F2T it

Keith Tanner wrote: As tested by the magazine, it weighed 2530 lbs full of fuel and had a 51.9% front weight bias. it weighs 2661 lbs full of fuel and has a 51.9% front weight bias.

so what you are saying is you can plant a moderate sized Asian inside the engine compartment without changing the front weight bias??

I'll buy it that you can slip a V8 into a Miata... and I'll buy that you can make it handle... what I have a problem with is the cars mass grew by 131#s and the bias remained the same

In reply to oldeskewltoy:

Part of the mass gain was the suitably stout differential. Probably some other details as well, but I think that's a big one...

Not all the weight gain is at the front of the car. T56 weighs a lot, and is mid-chassis - I suspect that is the main source of the weight gain. The Chevy rear diff is a fair bit chunkier than the Miata torsen. Not rocket science. :)

Edit: treed. :)

In reply to tuna55:

I take it you haven't of what else Mr 92BeefForceHalftracSupreme has hiding in his garage THIS time have you... Also BeefForceHalftracSupreme is a GREAT S/N.

Yup, that T56 adds a pretty considerable piece of mass. I think it's around 70 lbs heavier than the stock trans, and it's right in the middle of the car. The diff is likely a bit heavier and the axles definitely are. Heck, we also have a dual exhaust now so there's more piping running to the back of the car. The car's on different rolling stock now but of course that's not going to show up in the weight balance, just the overall weight. The stock front subframe was swapped for a tubular one that's about 10 lbs lighter, and that weight came right off the front wheels.

I'll bet the masses are more central too, we might have gained weight on the trans but we lost an intercooler that was right at the pointy end of the car. A big intercooler. Come to think of it, the radiator might actually be lighter as it's a more efficient design than we used to use a decade ago.

So what I'm saying is that there's more involved than just dumping an engine under the hood. And when you think about it, we really pulled the moderate Asian out and replaced him with an American running back.

That Getrag differential...that's the same one out of the Solstice/Sky/STS/CTS right? Would you say that it's lighter than a Ford 7.5?

In reply to tuna55:

The MSM isn't getting an F2T. That said, I do believe that the world needs an f2t miata.

Swank Force One wrote: I do believe that the world needs an f2t miata.

or a stroke 7AGE developing somewhere over 270hp @ 10,000 rpm

sobe_death wrote: That Getrag differential...that's the same one out of the Solstice/Sky/STS/CTS right? Would you say that it's lighter than a Ford 7.5?

Specifically, it's the 2nd gen Cadillac CTS-V version. Not the problematic one from the earlier cars. I don't have a 7.5 here to compare it to, but I don't think it's significantly heavier than a Miata torsen in the full housing. I'll try to weigh the next one.

Love it!

ahhhhhhhh... so when someone who knows WTF they are doing swaps a V8 into a Miata the balance doesn't change.......

The problem here is... as it is with every group of enthusiasts... there is the low end of the intelligent spectrum where this guy who only reads as much as he can before his brain hurts.... "V8 Miata"... and reads no more......

and then says, "FM did it I can too"

Anything can be done badly. Should we only talk about that way to do it? Or should we discuss a well done yet attainable example?

Remember that I'm also comparing a turbo car to the V8. The turbos do add a bit of weight, mostly at the front, although our car was awfully close to a stock Mazdaspeed in terms of balance. Still, regardless of what you compare it to, 51.9% front weight is a happy number.

Because FM has done it, we can help other people do the same We sell every single part on that car. So yeah, "I can do it too" is a legit reaction!

Keith Tanner wrote: Remember that I'm a[dding] turbo to the V8....

good plan!

Swank Force One wrote: Yeah there's no way in hell my car is trapping 106mph. That's almost what my MX6 was trapping down at the Challenge, and even wounded in ridiculously hot weather, there's no way my Miata is even in the same league as that thing. I'm down to give it a shot in Spring, though.

I think it would trap that high if you went to a strip better than LORI/ORP.....

yamaha wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Yeah there's no way in hell my car is trapping 106mph. That's almost what my MX6 was trapping down at the Challenge, and even wounded in ridiculously hot weather, there's no way my Miata is even in the same league as that thing. I'm down to give it a shot in Spring, though.

I think it would trap that high if you went to a strip better than LORI/ORP.....

The MSM? No way. I've never had it on a strip, but unless the strip is way greasier than the street, i'll be able to flat foot 1st and second and dead hook.

The MX6 has been on two drag strips. LORI/ORP and Gainesville Raceway. I think i just barely nipped a 110mph at Gainesville with a bad clutch, eleventy billion degree temperatures, and a big exhaust leak pre-turbo.

The car has been 118mph at LORI/ORP a couple years ago. Shooting for 130mph in Spring.

I still maintain that the MSM won't trap 106mph. I'd honestly be a little surprised if it got over 100mph.

ANYWAYS... back to weight distribution talks.

Keith you might have encountered this: I hear that a 50/50 distribution is always the goal, but sometimes theories don't necessarily end up with a car that handles well.

With how close the Miata seems to be from factory, i'm sure you've seen a 50/50 Miata.

Good? Bad? Worth aiming for?

I realize we're only talking a 2% difference here, (well, almost 4% total, i guess) but my curiousity is piqued.