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Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
6/1/11 9:47 a.m.

Both great machines, but very different cars. I'd drive good examples of each and see what you like best.

E36 M3 pros-- Fantastic steering feel, very communicative handling, good power, abundant aftermarket support, very practical (real back seat + trunk). 24mpg in mixed driving, 27mpg or so at a steady 75mph.

cons--- interiors become unglued (door panels, dash panel, headliners), cooling system will need to be replaced / upgraded, they are older cars.

C5 pros--- Much more powerful, massive aftermarket, super comfy long distance car. 30mpg+ on hwy, Welcome at any car event, American or not.

C5 cons--- huge car, very low seating position, crappy GM interior quality, consumable costs. "gold chain" stigma

As long as you buy a good example of either you can't lose.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
6/1/11 9:52 a.m.

This link is long overdue

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
6/1/11 9:55 a.m.
Joe Gearin wrote: C5 cons--- huge car

Careful with that, it's 5" longer than the M3 and a full 5" shorter in height. The difference in width is the largest at 6" - not a giant difference.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
6/1/11 10:10 a.m.
tuna55 wrote:
Joe Gearin wrote: C5 cons--- huge car
Careful with that, it's 5" longer than the M3 and a full 5" shorter in height. The difference in width is the largest at 6" - not a giant difference.

Measure it again with yourself, a passenger, tools, luggage, 4 wheels and tires, jackstands, jack, helmets, and a cooler full of beer in the trunk. I think the M3 will be a little lower then.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
6/1/11 10:20 a.m.

How long is a C5 with a tire trailer?

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
6/1/11 11:01 a.m.
tuna55 wrote:
Joe Gearin wrote: C5 cons--- huge car
Careful with that, it's 5" longer than the M3 and a full 5" shorter in height. The difference in width is the largest at 6" - not a giant difference.

Ok, it FEELS huge. Not a terrible thing, but you sit low in a C5, and the hood is long.

The M3 is a much more upright seating position and the outward visibility is excellent.

Although the C5's outward view isn't completely blind like a lot of new cars,(370z, Camaro) it isn't great either.

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
6/1/11 11:05 a.m.

as said over and over before.. both are great cars.. try them on for size and see which you prefer. You certainly can't go wrong unless you buy a beaten example

ApxAnimal
ApxAnimal New Reader
6/1/11 6:43 p.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: This is at its heart an apples/oranges discussion but truthfully - I have put 40k track-only miles on an E36 M3 with oil, tire and brake pad changes. Those pads last longer. The tires are way cheaper. The lap times at tight, technical road courses are pretty damn close to a non-Z-06 C5. At summit point my IP M3 was quicker than all but the Z-06s on slicks. This is my opine only - but a C5 Vette is a very fast car that is not much fun to drive. To make it fun you have to spend thousands on suspension and steering and it was already a pretty high "per event" brake pad and tire user. You can drop 10k on an E36 M3 (that includes the coilovers and sway bars) and go out and make yourself giggle for half a summer on the same set of race tires. So... all things being equal (and they are not by definition) the M3 is the cheap fun choice here for a track toy. At $2k a weekend in tires and brakes for a well driven C5 - you can buy an M3 every 5 weekends.

Now that's the kind of reply I'm looking for. Though I should note that I don't intend to hit roadcourses. Autox suits me just fine. Unless I suddenly come into a bunch of cash to pay the entry fees and pay for a couple sets of tires a year.

Yeah, for some reason I'm liking the idea of the M3 better.

ApxAnimal
ApxAnimal New Reader
6/1/11 6:45 p.m.
miatame wrote: I've also thought about putting an E46 M3 engine into my E36. Best of both worlds? Perhaps.

Unless someone has finally figured out the wiring harness for that swap, I understand it's very difficult to get it right. It's been a while since I read up on it, but I know there is/was a guy working on a plug/n/play harness to do it though.

miatame
miatame HalfDork
6/2/11 2:02 p.m.
ApxAnimal wrote:
miatame wrote: I've also thought about putting an E46 M3 engine into my E36. Best of both worlds? Perhaps.
Unless someone has finally figured out the wiring harness for that swap, I understand it's very difficult to get it right. It's been a while since I read up on it, but I know there is/was a guy working on a plug/n/play harness to do it though.

Bimmerworld has a PnP harness for sale but it is not OBDII compliant. :(

fasted58
fasted58 Dork
7/22/11 3:00 a.m.

high quality and magnificent canoe

miatame
miatame HalfDork
7/22/11 7:38 a.m.

These canoes should show up to the Challenge trying to spam us in person. I would help strap them to the Boss Hong and watch while they shoot flames at the guys crotch.

chaparral
chaparral Reader
7/22/11 12:16 p.m.

I wrote this a couple months ago for another forum. Mine's plain, not a Z06. I’ve owned a 1999 C5 Corvette for a year now.

Five things that I haven’t seen so far in the comments.

1) It is immensely reliable and cheap to run. I have spent under $250 on maintenance and repairs so far and haven’t neglected anything. Flush the coolant every five years, change the synthetic oil when the car tells you to, drain the clutch and brake fluid reservoirs with a turkey baster and refill every oil change, change the sparkplugs when you get a misfire. That’s about it. Wait; I had to replace two $4 aftermarket exhaust hangers. It has spent every day in service.

2) A Corvette is a very big car. The nose is miles in front of you, the tail miles behind, and it is over six feet wide. Fortunately, this also goes for the cabin. Anyone shorter than Hakeem Olajuwon will fit before the tracks are all the way back. The cargo area is very large as well.

3) The 346-CID engine plays in a different league from the lesser machinery in this discussion. The throttle travel is long, the power is progressive, and you are still always aware that you have fewer than ten pounds per horsepower. 25 to 75 in second gear takes four seconds – and that is useful on the road. The powerband starts at 2500 and runs to the 6250 rev limiter – and that is useful on the road. It will pull the brutal third gear to 108 MPH – and THAT is useful when somebody tries to block you from overtaking. It sounds right, too, with any decent aftermarket exhaust.

4) For highway cruising it is difficult to beat a car this slick and relaxed, with the twelve-CD changer, the ice-cold GM A/C, and the relaxed engine. It really is only turning 1500 at 70, and I have gotten 35 MPG tank-average once. On the back roads, it is difficult to beat a very well balanced car with a center of gravity that low and tires that wide. Then ye olde boat motor decides it wants to be a part of the show and you get an adjustment – yaw angle – that other cars simply don’t have on the road. It’s friendly, it’s responsive, it’s relaxed, it just happens to be going… well, the statute of limitations in New York State still hasn’t expired on that particular run yet.

5) The instrumentation is the best in any road car by miles and miles. It will take you a week to get used to the HUD and about thirty seconds in another car to wonder why all of them don’t have it. The digital display is also quite useful. You can improve your driving watching your instant and average fuel mileage, and then check your tire pressures. Porsche’s Sport Chrono timer costs $900 and they advertise it as part of their connection to motorsport. The Elapsed Time feature on the Corvette is the fifth menu item on the “Trip” button and merits two lines in the owner’s manual.

They do the same thing, and that I think sums up this car very well. It does things very few other cars can, intimidates novice drivers into driving it safely, rewards expert driving, and is relaxed and unassuming about all of it.

redstack
redstack New Reader
7/22/11 5:29 p.m.

A friend let me spend the weekend at reno-fernely co-driving his 01 zo6. What a friend huh? Anyway I just wanted to say that the Z06 was the easiest car to drive fast that I have ever experienced. I normally drive a SC miata, but the fit was perfect, I'm a big guy, and the heel-toe was a simple fit. Best deal was the comptetion mode active handling kept me from digging my self too deep a hole.

Just about the perfect way for a driver to show up at the track, have a great weekend and then drive it home. I would trade my miata in on one today, if I could find the extra cash.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim SuperDork
7/22/11 5:46 p.m.

Well, I can't comment specifically on the C5 'cos I've got a C4, but that's never stopped me before .

I agree with the comments that they feel large - they're not a small car anyway but they seem to feel even bigger than they are. I currently DD the C4 as all my other vehicles are in various states of 'broken' and I'm enjoying the experience, but there is more work lurking soon. 'vettes in general seem to be fairly cheap to service but for bigger repairs are very expensive if you can't do all the work yourself. I wouldn't be too surprised if they're about as expensive to fix as an E36 M3 if you're looking at shop rates.

Re the DDing - I live in truck country, but there's a ton of 'vettes around here as well, I usually don't find the visibility an issue unless it's caused by the long hood (ie, having to stick the nose further into an intersection that I'm comfortable with.

And yes, interiors are crap in all the 'vettes I've driven (multiple C4s and a C6). The day you get a nice interior in one from GM is probably the day you want to check the weather report for hell.

TBH I wouldn't mind a nice E36 M3/4/5 as a practical car that can hoon, but for a $15k-20k budget I'd be sorely tempted to look at a C5 or a C4 ZR1.

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
7/22/11 8:46 p.m.

All that said about the vette being big... it IS a car that shrinks around you at speed.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo HalfDork
7/22/11 11:02 p.m.

The best part about my Corvette is that it just works.

Supercar performance, GM truck reliability.

Laugh all you want, but its true. A GM will run poorly longer than most cars will run at all.

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