Camshaft specs?

That wasn't directed at you, or anyone else in particular.

Consider it a kind of public service announcement.

It wasn't that long ago people were still saying the best cam for a turbo application was the stock one, and we all know now how ridiculous that is.

In reply to Suprf1y :

Oh I completely agree about Cams.  Stock on a race motor because you’re afraid of blowing boost out the exhaust valve is silly.  

On the other hand it’s easy to go too wild with a camshaft too.  My problem is I want some knowledgeable advice but what I’m doing is so abnormal, weird, and different that it takes specialized knowledge to extrapolate one application and apply it to another.  

Plus I need to be honest. I think it’s stealing if you take information with no intention of making a purchase.  

Here on the hive where information is freely given and it’s up to the receiver to separate the wheat from the chaff the rules are different.  

I got this e-mail today.

Controlled Induction Software pulls out all the stops on it’s first collaboration with Pipemax’s LarryMeaux.

Induction “2020” combines, replaces and succeeds all previous “CI” software with improved accuracy, simplified operation and detailed step-by-step instructions. The new software also has the added capability of generating “grind ready” cam profile lift tables, saved to file in “S96” format. The “S96” files can be loaded into the Engine Analyzer Pro and Dynomation to simulate, and verify, each cam design's performance. The S96 files can also be sent with your camshaft order, to Howards Cams, where those files will be turned into a quality CNC ground prototype camshaft, including “Jones Inverse Radius” roller cams.

Designed specifically as a cam development tool, the ”2020” software reorganized the user interface and has added many new features. This is a software that no engine builder will want to be without.

For further information, please visit the new website at: www.controlledinduction.com

Technical Support

Controlled Induction Software

In reply to 44Dwarf : That’s the software I’ve used  for more than 20 years( Engine analyzer) and it’s remarkably good.  

I used to back door stuff that wasn’t available back then and still back door engine programs they don’t list.  Even then I could comfortably get answers that were within about 5% of actual  

That’s how I used to figure cams and headers. In fact I still have to do that because they don’t have any 60 degree V12 baseline to work from.  I put 27 feet of exhaust tubing into a set of headers for the first V12  I raced and in the end it only made less than a 5% power improvement over the cast iron headers.  The program said it should have been almost 11%

The reason for the difference is a 90 degree V8 has adjacent cylinders firing between 90 and  270 degrees different which  has exhaust  pulses   Interfering with each other.  A 60 degree V12 has adjacent cylinders firing exactly 120 degrees apart. 

yupididit said:

Pictures of the twin turbo v12 and of your supercharger setup. 

You can email them to me mahalregina@gmail.com

If you ever need any pics posted just let me know visa email and I'll gladly post them until you figure it out. 

I sold that a couple of decades ago. Although every once in a while I see it someplace. 

It’s not pretty though, everything looks tired and old since I built that to run chumpcar with their $500 limit You have to take the wheel off and pull the inner fender to see the actual turbos. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to Suprf1y :

 My problem is I want some knowledgeable advice but what I’m doing is so abnormal, weird, and different that it takes specialized knowledge to extrapolate one application and apply it to another.  

 

I don't think what you're doing is abnormal or weird. Pretty straightforward from my perspective.

I think your real problem is budget.

Suprf1y said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to Suprf1y :

 My problem is I want some knowledgeable advice but what I’m doing is so abnormal, weird, and different that it takes specialized knowledge to extrapolate one application and apply it to another.  

 

I don't think what you're doing is abnormal or weird. Pretty straightforward from my perspective.

I think your real problem is budget.

You are right with a big enough budget I’d buy a few cams throw them on the engine and see what the Dyno likes.  

The only time I ever did that is when I was young and computers were something used by the military and NASA 

I’m trying to remember the first time I saw a computer used to select engine components. It probably was the early 1980s  The printer had special computer paper with holes on the side and you tore off sheets and then folded the sides over to remove the holes.  

You’d think with all the turbo charged engines I read about there would be a Wealth of cam specs.  I could just build myself a spread sheet and zero in on prime examples to run on my computer program.  

So I disagree, I am weird.  My car is going to be bizarre and I know my choices have long since passed different. It would seem most  people here don’t question or investigate to the degree I do.  If they do apparently they don’t want to share their experiences.  

It’s kind of everyone to tolerate me so I thank you for that.  

In reply to frenchyd :

Why did you delete your reply to me from last week then repost it today? 

frenchyd said:

Suprf1y said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to Suprf1y :

 My problem is I want some knowledgeable advice but what I’m doing is so abnormal, weird, and different that it takes specialized knowledge to extrapolate one application and apply it to another.  

 

I don't think what you're doing is abnormal or weird. Pretty straightforward from my perspective.

I think your real problem is budget.

You are right with a big enough budget I’d buy a few cams throw them on the engine and see what the Dyno likes.  

The only time I ever did that is when I was young and computers were something used by the military and NASA 

I’m trying to remember the first time I saw a computer used to select engine components. It probably was the early 1980s  The printer had special computer paper with holes on the side and you tore off sheets and then folded the sides over to remove the holes.  

You’d think with all the turbo charged engines I read about there would be a Wealth of cam specs.  I could just build myself a spread sheet and zero in on prime examples to run on my computer program.  

So I disagree, I am weird.  My car is going to be bizarre and I know my choices have long since passed different. It would seem most  people here don’t question or investigate to the degree I do.  If they do apparently they don’t want to share their experiences.  

It’s kind of everyone to tolerate me so I thank you for that.  

So, did you find the answer you need? 

In reply to yupididit :

No,  but I’m beginning to believe most people use what they have or whatever someone tells them. The people who really know are in the business of Cams and it’s wrong to use them without any chance of them being rewarded for that knowledge.  

 I can figure it out myself using my engine analyzer program but like many things what I don’t know is the frightening part.  I’ve built enough normally aspirated engines that there isn’t any mystery left but dealing with boost is new for me 

left

If you know of good simulation software please share, but I suspect cam profiles are up there on the list of secret formulas. Any reputable cam grinder I think that's what you're paying for.

In reply to plain92 :

Engine analyzer pro has extremely good cam data and profile information. I’ve used them in the past to develop selection.  There is also a ways  convert cam specs to grind a master directly.  

Camshafts  aren’t  voodoo but straight forward math which computers are extremely good at.  I just would like input from others who have selected camshafts  based  on  super/turbo charging in racing applications 

Drag racers have one set of needs, Land speed racers another, but road racers are unique in the length of time  we lean on our engines.  

Jaguar V12s are both blessed and cursed. The valve springs they use are common. They are used by 3 liter formula 1 engines, both the six and 12 cylinder engines.  The old cast iron block designed in WW2  and the 4 valve  all aluminum engine  later used by GM in their mid sized SUVs 

On top of all that  they are also used in old Ford flathead engines. 

The bad part is  many Jaguar engine compartments are horrible at retaining engine heat. That has a tendency to soften the springs to the point where the springs give up.  

I can imagine under the heat and pressure of boost soft springs could be  a real serious problem.  Formula 1 with it’s insane revs  and a Ford Flathead with its heat retention  should  afford  some  protection 

The E-Type came with a V12. I heard the straight 6 was a good car until about the '80s and try to avoid reshimming the lifters if possible.

In reply to plain92 :

one of my race cars I built was a XKE V 12 roadster  extremely light, dry weight of 2100 pounds that big powerful V 12 with a full set of Weber’s and 27 feet of exhaust tubing under the bonnet( talk about a bundle of snakes!!!) 

It’s not difficult to adjust the shims on the lifters but mechanics get a really big paycheck to do it.  ( and plenty of them have no real idea how to do it properly). 

Luckily once done right the engine can run for decades before needing a readjustment.   

The parts are the same for any Jaguar, from 1948- today plus the six cylinder engine in GM medium sized SUVs, the all aluminum one with 4 valves per cylinder since GM got the engine from Jaguar right before Ford bought Jaguar. 

That GM six has hydraulic roller cams

Frenchyd, I'm going to use twin turbos on V12 in my wide body Etype. I'm headed to the PRI show tis coming weekend and will be researching cams, turbos etc. Turbo engines are out of my realm also, but. I've worked extensively with natural aspirated competition engines. I'll report back when I return. I'd like to exchange experience with you, if you don't mind.

In reply to Motage :that sounds interesting  

frenchyd said:

In reply to plain92 :

one of my race cars I built was a XKE V 12 roadster  extremely light, dry weight of 2100 pounds that big powerful V 12 with a full set of Weber’s and 27 feet of exhaust tubing under the bonnet( talk about a bundle of snakes!!!) 

It’s not difficult to adjust the shims on the lifters but mechanics get a really big paycheck to do it.  ( and plenty of them have no real idea how to do it properly). 

Luckily once done right the engine can run for decades before needing a readjustment.   

The parts are the same for any Jaguar, from 1948- today plus the six cylinder engine in GM medium sized SUVs, the all aluminum one with 4 valves per cylinder since GM got the engine from Jaguar right before Ford bought Jaguar. 

I had no idea the Atlas inline 6 engine was bought from Jaguar. I thought they developed it themselves. 

In reply to yupididit :

At the time Jaguar owed a pretty hefty debt to GM for all the transmissions they got.  GM came over to buy Jaguar and took their time doing their due diligence.  In the end all the machinery was pretty well worn out. Some dated pre war. The only thing worth while was that six. Just when GM was going to pass on everything except the new 4 valve all aluminum engine.  In exchange for the transmission debt. 

Ford found out and threw a giant big offer at them.  Let’s just say Ford really didn’t know what they were buying.  

But to be fair GM did make some changes.  My opinion they changed a race horse into a draft horse,  but it is a sweet SUV engine even if it’s too big for a small one and not big enough for a big one

Where did you find this info? I tried googling to read further into it, but found nothing.

How much did Jaguar owe them?

In reply to yupididit :

it was in an article in one of the trade newspapers. Decades ago.   

You can confirm it, just check when Ford bought Jaguar, right after that Jaguar stopped using that engine  and after that GM came out with their “Atlas”.  

They both retain the same bore centers, deck height, etc.  

it’s actually not that unusual Ford sold it’s old Flathead to France, Rover bought Buick’s aluminum V8 and a few others that I forget right now  

It's confirmed because GM started using their Atlas engine when Jaguar stopped using their 4.2? and after Ford bought them?? Is this speculation? I'm confused. 

It depends on what level of proof you seek. I’m sure the proper paperwork exists someplace to satisfy someone. 

Any literature or references would be awesome.