Can we just talk about the fact a 4cylinder Camaro won a national championship?

It says in the article he was running 275s stuffed on 8.5" wheels. I assume that means squared. 

bmw88rider said:

I would not be surprised to see them all on the same line in FS over the off season. 

Failing to protect the dignity/ego of the many V8 FS drivers across the nation would be a poor financial choice for the SCCA.  Why do you think they started moving V6 and I4T pony cars to DS in the first place?  Probably because they were becoming too competitive...And now it would seem that their worst fears have proven to be completely justified.

Knurled said:

David S. Wallens said:

If I'm correctly reading my codes, the optional RS package for the four-cylinder car adds 20x8.5-inch front wheels and 20x9.5-inch rears. And as mazdeuce, notes, yep, then you can go up or down 1 inch in the SCCA Street classes. That's some big wheels. 

I was playing around with the car configurator and ordering the 245 front/275 rear tire package automatically gives you the 3.6l engine too, for the 2018MY.  The only tire/wheel packages I could find that allow you to keep the four cylinder are square setups.

 

Still, not bad.  $31k got me a nicely optioned package.

You know, his car is listed as a 2016 Camaro. I might have been looking at the media info for 2016 or ’17. 

I'm now at the GM media site. I was looking at 2017 Camaro info. For the 2018 Camaro, they only have ZL1 info posted so far. 

David S. Wallens said:

You know, his car is listed as a 2016 Camaro. I might have been looking at the media info for 2016 or ’17. 

Wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer juggled options.

Some YouTube searching leads to the revelation that the 2.0t/auto combo blats like a PDK Porsche on upshifts. 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/25N0naMFI5w

This is bad.  Very bad.  You can find 4-digit mileage Camaros for $20k-ish.

Are they putting the 10 speed auto behind the four cylinder? I've been a bit in love with the idea of that transmission since the Nurburgring video. 

I think the 10 speed was only on the ZL1 so far (and the ford F150 and rumored to be in a mustang soon)

Knurled said:

David S. Wallens said:

You know, his car is listed as a 2016 Camaro. I might have been looking at the media info for 2016 or ’17. 

 

Wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer juggled options.

Some YouTube searching leads to the revelation that the 2.0t/auto combo blats like a PDK Porsche on upshifts. 

 

 

 

 

 

This is bad.  Very bad.  You can find 4-digit mileage Camaros for $20k-ish.

 

 

2 litre manual ats I saw for as low as 13k if its really the same car underneath and you could even grab the chevy performance suspension parts and go to town

I think it will go back to FS. There is a good basis now for DS with the  WRX, early non-TRD FRSBRZ, E36 M3, and E46 330i ZHP. as a distinct slightly slower class than FS. I always thought pony cars in DS was a poor fit.

I think you go ahead and move the Ecoboost Mustang back too. My inclination is that Scroggs could have done the exact same thing in an Ecoboost Track Pack.

Jaynen said:

oldsaw said:

ojannen said:

In reply to Jaynen :

Just looking at weight, power, and tires, the Camaro is classed roughly correctly.  I know this was a fairly fast course and many cars were on the limiter for a good chunk of it.  Maybe the Camaro has a slightly taller second gear that helped there.

I put most of the blame on the driver.

Re: the bolded part. 

People just don't realize there are excellent autocrossers and then there are people like Mark Scroggs. 

No doubt that the latest Camaros are good cars but some drivers make them great cars.

People like Mark us mortals generally refer to as "aliens"

I have known Mark over tens years now. He has always been up there with the fastest autocrossers in northern California; people Bryan Heitkotter, Scott Fraser, and Ben Martinez.  I used to call him the fastest guy in North America who had never been to nationals.  Then he went to nationals and the rest is history.

The last time he co-drove my car at an event, he was almost two seconds faster on 50 second course.    

Knurled said:

Some YouTube searching leads to the revelation that the 2.0t/auto combo blats like a PDK Porsche on upshifts. 

Maybe for the few milliseconds of shift it farts kind of like one, if that's your thing, but what an uninspiring sound the rest of the time. 

mazdeuce said:

Are they putting the 10 speed auto behind the four cylinder? I've been a bit in love with the idea of that transmission since the Nurburgring video. 

When Motor Trend tested the ZL-1 at Streets Of Willow, it was 1.5 seconds slower per lap with the 10-speed auto versus the 6-speed manual

In reply to NickD :

That's with a pro driver though too. In the hands of an average car guy I'd expect less difference.

In terms of the original post, the 4cyl Camaro seems pretty impressive for the base model car. It would be interesting to see one in CAM where it had fewer restrictions.

In CAM it would have to compete against its v8 brethren though. With a tune and downpipe it seems like the 2.0 turbo will make about 325 wheel hp and 370 wheel torque but that is still not enough to make up the power differential, not sure how much the weight difference would come into play

In terms of that upshift sound, I hate it. All the new BMWs do that with their turbo 6s as well and I just found it terrible. The new M3/M4 etc just don't sound good to me

Jaynen said:

Knurled said:

David S. Wallens said:

You know, his car is listed as a 2016 Camaro. I might have been looking at the media info for 2016 or ’17. 

 

Wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer juggled options.

Some YouTube searching leads to the revelation that the 2.0t/auto combo blats like a PDK Porsche on upshifts. 

This is bad.  Very bad.  You can find 4-digit mileage Camaros for $20k-ish.

2 litre manual ats I saw for as low as 13k if its really the same car underneath and you could even grab the chevy performance suspension parts and go to town

$11k 2.0t/auto ATS

NickD said:

mazdeuce said:

Are they putting the 10 speed auto behind the four cylinder? I've been a bit in love with the idea of that transmission since the Nurburgring video. 

When Motor Trend tested the ZL-1 at Streets Of Willow, it was 1.5 seconds slower per lap with the 10-speed auto versus the 6-speed manual

More like .6 seconds. 

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/camaro/2017/2017-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-first-test-brute-squad-goals/

Jaynen said:

In CAM it would have to compete against its v8 brethren though.

At nationals it ran a faster raw time than every CAM-C car...In addition to every FS car, every pony car in AS, and all but one ST-Pony car.  An essentially stock 4-cylinder Camaro is currently the second fastest autoxing pony car on street tires in the country, regardless of modifications.

Jaynen said:

Knurled said:

David S. Wallens said:

You know, his car is listed as a 2016 Camaro. I might have been looking at the media info for 2016 or ’17. 

 

Wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer juggled options.

Some YouTube searching leads to the revelation that the 2.0t/auto combo blats like a PDK Porsche on upshifts. 

 

 

 

 

 

This is bad.  Very bad.  You can find 4-digit mileage Camaros for $20k-ish.

 

 

2 litre manual ats I saw for as low as 13k if its really the same car underneath and you could even grab the chevy performance suspension parts and go to town

Or ATS-V parts.

Driven5 said:

Jaynen said:

In CAM it would have to compete against its v8 brethren though.

At nationals it ran a faster raw time than every CAM-C car...In addition to every FS car, every pony car in AS, and all but one ST-Pony car.  An essentially stock 4-cylinder Camaro is currently the second fastest autoxing pony car on street tires in the country, regardless of modifications.

Crazy is the car that good or just Mark is that much of an alien :) Can you imagine the stink a turbo 4 cylinder camaro winning nationals in CAM would create lol

Driven5 said:

At nationals it ran a faster raw time than every CAM-C car...In addition to every FS car, every pony car in AS, and all but one ST-Pony car.  An essentially stock 4-cylinder Camaro is currently the second fastest autoxing pony car on street tires in the country, regardless of modifications.

Wow!  That's to the point where I wonder if the driver isn't a significant part of the reason.

Regarding the ATS, I'm not certain if the suspension is identical.  The width of the ATS is a couple of inches narrower than the Camaro.  Edit:  Camaro control arms are longer.

Hmm longer control arms also likely means the Camaro runs wider wheels easier

Snrub said:

Regarding the ATS, I'm not certain if the suspension is identical.  The width of the ATS is a couple of inches narrower than the Camaro.  Edit:  Camaro control arms are longer.

This makes me think, "ATS + flares + Crammit control arms = hot Cad goodness."

He wasn't as fast in the Focus RS, Civic Type R, or BRZ in the article from the original post. It's sort of hard for me to understand the numbers for the other drivers.

Could it be that he would be faster if any of them had been his car and he was more comfortable driving them? Who knows, and I'm not trying to discount the car, it sounds amazing.

The driver no doubt plays a huge part in this, but to be that much faster than everyone, at nationals, where fast guys from all over the country show up, means the car is much better than it's supposed to be. 

Related, I saw my first new base Camaro today. Bare trunk lid, no hood bulges, nothing. It's a slinky little beast.  

Driven5 said:

Knurled said:

Some YouTube searching leads to the revelation that the 2.0t/auto combo blats like a PDK Porsche on upshifts. 

Maybe for the few milliseconds of shift it farts kind of like one, if that's your thing, but what an uninspiring sound the rest of the time. 

It's a four cylinder.  They always sound uninspiring unless they're something like a BDA screaming at over 9000.