Chain vs Belt

Considering I buy cars used with over 100k (who doesn't here), I prefer chains (Nissan SR20DE, VQ, etc). It means I don't have to factor an extra day of labor or $500 into the buying price to replace the timing belt. OR take my chances. I've always heard they are noisier, but on the newer engines, I can't hear it.

For example, we bought my wife's 98 Accord with 135k miles and unknown timing belt history. We're gambling that it was replaced (calculated guess) and so far we're at 196k. Fingers crossed it lasts another 6 months until I can sell it!

Appleseed wrote: Extreme example, but a double row Bristol Hercules radial used gears to operate sleeve valves. I don't envy the RAF. (hotlinked for complexity)

UUF! Catch your finger in that!!!

hotlinked for safety

DaveEstey wrote: As far as I know the chain on my RSX has no replacement interval

No, but about 100-120k it'll be stretched throwing a CEL. Then you'll need to replace it and the tensionor for triple the cost of a timing belt on a B18.

DaveEstey wrote: As far as I know the chain on my RSX has no replacement interval

Old BMW big sixes have gone half a million miles on the same chain, still valving accurately enough to get mid-20s fuel mileage and light up the tires.

Belts have a lot of win in terms of cost, mass, drag and accuracy but 25yrs ago the Bavarians were doing way better than my Chevy 350 with a chain. I guess its probably all in how the technology is applied. BMW didn't build obsolesce into anything before the 1990s. Rust took care of that.

On both of my last two DD cars one had 200K and the current one has 130K. Both have chains, both get mid 30's on the highway and both will light up the tires in the first two gears.

I have changed two belts in my life, one on my GTV6 and one on my 92 Civic. Both were a pain in the butt and considering how many miles we put on cars its not worth it to me for a DD. It seems to me that if you keep up on the oil changes a chain should last the lifetime of the car, a belt not so much.

Chains SHOULD.... but they don't. The length they hve to be for modern DOHC engines require many guides, tensioners and a long chain. That all leads to more points of wear, more moving pieces, more chances of failure.

Now, with that said I've had small block GM's and their V6 derivative with 200-300k miles without fail. short chains typically hold up better.

racinginc215 wrote: Jesse Jackson Loud and from the Rainbow Coalition. Pete Jackson Maker of Gear drives for timing. Also Pete Jackson makes a quiet drive. Jesse Jackson will never be quiet about anything.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

I was trying to make funny but I'll stop in the future since it's lost on so many people.

Shawn

In reply to Bobzilla:

I see your point though the two cars I was talking about are SAABs with DOHC 4s in them. Everything I said comes from my personal experience being a DIY home wrench so take it with whatever amount of salt you deem appropriate.

Trans_Maro wrote:

itsarebuild wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: OK, so why not gears? If they can create a 7-speed paddle shift intelligent transmission, why not similar technology for timing? </blockquote That was probably the Crosley (sp) </ Not if the gears are cut properly. If you've got the Jesse Jackson gear drive in your Chevelle, sure it'll make noise. My Iron Duke, Ford 300 and IHC 345 never made any extra noise because of the gear drive. The reason for no gear drive is all the extra monkey motion and rotating mass involved in an OHC gear driven arrangement. I once saw a cutaway drawing of an engine from the 40's or 50's that used bevel gears and shaft drive for the OHC setup. Shawn

I have driven all three types.. Gear, Chain, and Belt. Aside from the pita of replacing the belt in a fwd car with the belt jammed up against the side of the car, I would take another car with a belt anyday.

On my Fiat spider, I can do a belt in WAY less than an hour. And you have to drain and refill the coolant to do that one. When I had my Hyundai Tiburon, even with only 2 inches to spare between the belt and the car, I still did the belt in less than 3 hours... and installed a lightweight crank pulley at the same time.

Belts are sexy.. especially if you run them without the covers on

The shaft drive was on the Crosley (sp)

I'm positive that on the Alfa v6 I could do the belt in less than 30 minutes, now that I have done it. I was surprised how smoothly it went.

I forgot the ultimate answer to chain vs. belt. Wankel.

Knurled wrote: I forgot the ultimate answer to chain vs. belt. Wankel.

Some of us like torque and not having a need to own stock in oil companies....

Bobzilla wrote:

Knurled wrote: I forgot the ultimate answer to chain vs. belt. Wankel.

Some of us like torque and not having a need to own stock in oil companies....

I dunno, I like my torque "curve" just fiiiine

Bobzilla wrote:

Knurled wrote: I forgot the ultimate answer to chain vs. belt. Wankel.

Some of us like torque and not having a need to own stock in oil companies....

The rest of us like rediculous redlines and terrible mileage

belts can absorb the small pulses of individual firing on small cylinder count engines. ive heard some electronic ignitions dont like gears for that same reason as there's no energy absorbtion.

Knurled wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

Knurled wrote: I forgot the ultimate answer to chain vs. belt. Wankel.

Some of us like torque and not having a need to own stock in oil companies....

I dunno, I like my torque "curve" just fiiiine

Ah cute. It's like a real torque curve, only smaller.

^ Fuel consumption of a V8 with a honda torque curve! So cute!

DaveEstey wrote: As far as I know the chain on my RSX has no replacement interval

Probably similar to BMW's "lifetime" transmission fluid... whereas lifetime = warranty period.

This topic comes up all the time on the TDI forums... .since for some reason people will still complain about the TDI's 100K change interval and are under the delusion that chains are magically maintenance-free...

81gtv6 wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: I see your point though the two cars I was talking about are SAABs with DOHC 4s in them. Everything I said comes from my personal experience being a DIY home wrench so take it with whatever amount of salt you deem appropriate.

Are those the ones that are basically the same engine as an Ecotec? If so, you may have just cursed yourself. The Ecotec engines really enjoy puking the chains, and I've seen more than one SAABs with the Ecotec based engine that needed an engine due to the chain system giving up.

Ian_F wrote:

DaveEstey wrote: As far as I know the chain on my RSX has no replacement interval

Probably similar to BMW's "lifetime" transmission fluid... whereas lifetime = warranty period. This topic comes up all the time on the TDI forums... .since for some reason people will still complain about the TDI's 100K change interval and are under the delusion that chains are magically maintenance-free...

I guess none of them have ever had a VR6.

The Nissan 2.5L 4cyl was a chain car. I think that most Nissans are chains. I always felt guilty that I never had to work on my wife's Nissans- NOT. 200k miles on both a Altima and Maxima with original clutches and only oil and spark plugs replaced. I have changed more miata belts than I ever want to think about. I do remember the awful feeling the day that my 911's timing chain slapped the timing cover. Parked it and had it flat-towed home.

In reply to 16vCorey:

Both of mine are the older SAAB engines.

The BMW I4 and I6 chains are VERY long-lived - I can't recall ever hearing about one actually giving up. The tensioners get stuck and the chains wear (slowly) but they generally go easily as long as the rest of the engine (about 300k miles is my expected service life on these engines, based on what I've owned and seen; many have gone longer if maintained). The V8s are now starting to eat the guide rails on their chains, but even then the chains are not at fault.