First, you can reduce your bill by half - just change the front pads as the rears do much less braking work. Second, just buy a decent high performance pad - probably $100 and something for the front. Porterfield, HP, EBC, whatever suits your needs.
Third, if you want to race on the cheap, I would question the logic of doing that in a BMW
In reply to cbaclawski :
You're right in thinking that a real race pad is the way to go. Not only will they stop better, they will last longer too. $100 brake pads stop becoming cheap when you have to replace them once per track day.
Keith Tanner said:Asked my Lemons contacts which include a Tesla engineer with bmw race experience. Consensus was PFC08.
Hard to argue with that. I have PFC08's on my e46 right now. They seem to be getting better as they wear, and I've got about 2/3 of the pad left after +/- 5 full track days...
wspohn said:First, you can reduce your bill by half - just change the front pads as the rears do much less braking work. Second, just buy a decent high performance pad - probably $100 and something for the front. Porterfield, HP, EBC, whatever suits your needs.
Third, if you want to race on the cheap, I would question the logic of doing that in a BMW
I have no idea what pads are on there now, but based on the tires that came on the car they are likely the cheapest you can buy. Definitely changing all of them!
I don't plan on "racing" per se, and I am definitely a BMW guy/enthusiast. This is really just a personal challenge to spend as little as possible on a BMW that can run consistent and safe sub 1:50 laps at CMP. It's an extra car that I'll probably let friends drive too, 900 bucks for pads on my VF-650 supercharged e92 M3 with the stoptech trophy BBK that only I drive is one thing, this is different!
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) said:We always ran wildwood h pads on the vette for cmp. Usually get a weekentout of the rotors and a season from the pads.
A weekend out of the rotors? That's nuts! I bet I change pads 10x before i need rotors!
The MX-3 eats brake pads, which is why I updated the rotors to 12 inch and mustang calipers. I will note the other MX-3 at Laguna had the $250 fancy race pads, and they were toast after 1 day too, just like my $100 pads were at the previous race. The mustang calipers had a lot of options for pads, I used some $50 Stop Tech street perf pads and they were hardly worn after the weekend, and we drive it pretty hard. What that means to me is that every car is different and expensive pads don't always mean better, but cheap street pads suck. However, we raced with them at the previous race on sunday after the race pads wore out on saturday. You just have to drive differently, engine braking and early braking and don't follow the other cars too close. Not as much fun, but possible.
cbaclawski said:ZOO (Forum Supporter) said:I was pleased with the Performance Friction Z compound on my E46 M3. But there is little doubt that the 335 is likely quite a bit faster than the M, and that needs to be accounted for). Having said that, they were “acceptable” on the track if I managed them. Upgrading to real track pads was a game changed (I now run PFC 11s on my M2).
Highly doubt the 335i is faster them the e46 M3. Heavier, definitely, faster, prob not!!
Pretty good chance, I'd say, having had my M3 out-dragged by quite a few N54 and N55 powered cars down long straights. I'm not saying it has faster lap times than an E46 M3, but certainly that the abundant torque and potential for lots of "tuned" power really makes them quick in a straight line.
I had to rely on netter brakes and higher-cornering speeds instead of outright power when we played chase in those circumstances.
cbaclawski said:I have no idea what pads are on there now, but based on the tires that came on the car they are likely the cheapest you can buy. Definitely changing all of them!I don't plan on "racing" per se, and I am definitely a BMW guy/enthusiast. This is really just a personal challenge to spend as little as possible on a BMW that can run consistent and safe sub 1:50 laps at CMP. It's an extra car that I'll probably let friends drive too, 900 bucks for pads on my VF-650 supercharged e92 M3 with the stoptech trophy BBK that only I drive is one thing, this is different!
OK, if the ones on there are unknown (probably crap) pads, that's a good way to go. Unless you race fairly hard, a lesser rear pad, even the stock BMW factory compound may do.
For the fronts, I'd like the EBC (I run red on the street but might want to go up a rung on heat capacity for your BMW) and I also like the Porterfield R compounds (I've run the R4 on the track, and use R4S on the front of my Z4M). Not sure they make any of those that fit your car, though.
I bought a set of G-Loc track pads, which were on the inexpensive end of dedicated track pads (~$300/set). Absolutely no signs of pad fade over a single 25 minute session and no visible wear after two days (I didn't measure them).
As I understand it the people who started G-Loc were from Carbotech.
Thanks again to all.
Where do you all buy your pads? Shopping my usual sources (tirerack, amazon, random google) I can't seem to find a vendor that stocks many of the pads mentioned in this thread for my car.
Think I'm going to give those raybestos st43's a try, or maybe stick to a personally known quantity, suck it up, and buy some pfc-08's. That said, I'm still open should I find a decent place to buy something else without jumping through too many hoops. (most places seem to list fronts but not rears, or vice versa...)
Oh, and though I'm not w2w racing this car, at least for now, I do tend to treat every track day as my own personal time trial, whether one is sheduled or not...
I might be able to hook you up. Send me a PM with your email and let me check my parts bin.
I buy used takeoffs frequently from m3forums, bimmerforums, etc. You can buy near new race pads for 30-50% off pretty easy if you are patient. I would personally spring for some Hawk DTC 60s as they can usually be found for well under 400 total if you do some shopping.
I would much rather buy slightly used PFC or Hawk racing compound pads than buy brand new street pads for a track day.
Also, if you are in a serious pinch, atleast buy REAL race pads for the front axle so you have most of your brakes if the rear pads overheat.
Some of the smaller name brands can be purchased directly from the manufacturer, like Carbotech and G-Loc (and others, I'm sure).
In reply to cbaclawski :
BestBrakes.com is my go-to brake supplier for track and race cars. Mostly because they are stand up guys with excellent customer support (especially on the technical side of the house). They also happen to be supporters of a lot of club racing / DE groups in our region, as well as regular advertisers in GRM.
That said, I checked fitments on Raybestos pads, and I actually don't think they make ST-43s for your car. I could be wrong. Might be worth emailing them or calling to confirm. Looks like Bestbrakes does have a pretty good deal on PFC08's for your calipers though.
I will say this—once I tried true track pads I vowed I’d never run street/track pads on an HPDE day again. The difference is night and day, and I like knowing I will always have brakes.
What would you guys recommend for somebody who has nearly no budget and wants to take a car on track for just one day? Assume I'm an instructor who doesn't have to pay for track time, and I want to take my daily out for some silliness.
cbaclawski said:dps214 said:red_stapler said:cbaclawski said:Is there a cheap pad that performs decently and holds up to track use that I don't know about?
Yes, but they're a real racing pad. Raybestos ST43s are $590 for both axles on the 335i and you'll get tired of doing trackdays before they wear out. They're cheap in the sense that you get a lot of on-track miles per $ spent.
1000% this. They even work pretty well cold, they're just super noisy.
I'm usually one to cheap out a bit on pads, but I've always been in the situation of "street car that sees occasional track use". And even then I've been at least mildly disappointed with my choice more than once. For a dedicated track car, just do it right the first time and be done with it.
These seem like the ticket, Thanks so much!
Definitely agree with this. ST43 works well for 20 minute sessions and 24 hour enduros. Will last basically forever for track days.
I would recommend mechanical empathy. If your pads overheat, it doesn't matter how many track days you do - it's the one that matters. So pay attention and be willing to back off if necessary. As long as you're not trying to win the track day, you'll be fine.
As for sources - when I was running PFCs, I used to get them from PFC.
Cactus said:What would you guys recommend for somebody who has nearly no budget and wants to take a car on track for just one day? Assume I'm an instructor who doesn't have to pay for track time, and I want to take my daily out for some silliness.
I would say you are testing the hands of fate. If you have "nearly no budget", a track is something you should stay FAR away from. Anything can happen and you could seriously hamper your financial standing if something did. Go to a few events and ask for ride alongside for most of the fun with zero out of pocket!
I would advice a high speed go cart or maybe an autocross event for some fun on a low budget.
and what brake fluid do you use ?
Do you change it after each race weekend ?
Cactus said:What would you guys recommend for somebody who has nearly no budget and wants to take a car on track for just one day? Assume I'm an instructor who doesn't have to pay for track time, and I want to take my daily out for some silliness.
As has been stated by others, maybe consider not doing a track day if you can't afford to break your car. But if you intend to do it anyway, at least flush the brakes with high quality/temp brake fluid. Fluid fade I can be a nightmare you don't want to deal with. Pad fade is a little more forgiving and easier to deal with, just pay attention to pedal feel and if it starts feeling "wooden" and requiring more pressure to slow the car, do a cool down lap or two.
You'll likely overheat the engine oil on the stock oil cooler before you'll overheat the brakes. That will send the car into limp mode with reduced power.
Modern, turbo BMWs are not cheap to play with.
Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick two.
That said I'd recommend Carbotech or GLoc pads.
spandak said:Autozone semi metallics? They have the warranty too. I've heard mixed things and have no personal experience.
I've heard about using autozone or advanced semi metallics and some cars holding up too on some forums, I wonder if anyone else has any experiences especially on heavier cars as the posts I recalled reading about them were on smaller cars. My friend used them on a street/autox mustang and they dusted like crazy, but he loved their performance for the price he bought them for
ST43 or PST1001, I just ordered the PSTs and will see how they wear. I recommend getting a brake pad gauge set few bucks on Amazon and log your wear, along with tread depth on non rcomps and tire pressure. Really helps get a sense of what you need. For instance 3 days at RA and my front pads wear 2x-3x times faster than rear.
I was in a similar situation with my fiesta st. I needed brakes that would survive one track night event and then be normal street pads after that. I went with hawk hps 5.0s. The fiesta is probably pretty close to worst case for brake life - tiny brakes, no cooling, heavy-ish fwd with a fair amount of power and a brake torque vectoring system. The pads were good for ~3 laps at a time before they needed a cool down lap, but they went away slowly and always came back quickly. On a car with a better brake setup I imagine they or something comparable would be just fine as long as you're capable of some mechanical sympathy.
I didn't really get the advice I was looking for with my question. I have run AutoZone metallic pads at Nelson Ledges in a 2100# mid engine car on street tires and I had no issues. Not that NL requires much from brakes, but once bedded, I don't know that they were much different from the EBC (red I think?) that they replaced. It was a long time ago, don't ask for more details.
I have used Metal Masters in a 130hp 3000# sedan on track.
I have run whatever the good stoptech pads were when they started making them for street calipers.
I have run stock, Hawk, Carbotech, G-Loc and Porterfield pads in various ~300-350hp, ~3000-3800# BMWs, and I have favorites among those.
Are there any cheap pads that do shockingly well? Is there a street pad you'd bring to a track because it's the only thing you could get the night before you had to be on track?
I'll say skip ceramic pads for sure. No noise, no dust, no friction. Semi-metallic is my go to. And obviously driving it with a bit more caution than I would with race pads.
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