Could we talk about the Jaguar XJS ?

yupididit wrote: The homies XJS

You especially

Yes!

In reply to Donebrokeit: Jaguar has some really awesome parts in them that are most often let down by poor assembly and bad mechanics. But a history lesson first.

The XJ-S was introduced in 1975 and has several variations.. The first few years the Volume was tiny. One year under 1000 units made. Power wasn't impressive but very high torque (compression was only 7.8-1) although the early heads offered the most power potential. In 1980 compression was increased to 9.0 and power jumped accordingly. 1981 introduced The H.E engine, still at 5.3 litres (326 cu.in). 11.5-1 compression but poor head designed to meet California's emission rules. In 1992 the 6.0 was introduced (366 cu.in) The first couple of years retained the forged steel crankshaft but by 1994 it went to a sintered Iron cranks..

Fuel mileage increased from around 9-10 in 1975 to over 20 by the last years as the computers get better. From 1975 through late 1978 it suffered from the early Cast Iron Borg Warner transmission. (best left back with the Studebaker it came from) It then switched to the Turbo 400 and not just any turbo 400 the heavy duty one used in Ambulances and other extremely heavy duty applications. That lasted until 1992 when they switch to the GM overdrive transmission. Oh, some of the later six cylinders used a lighter duty GM transmission or the ZF a few years.. Neither of which are really all that rugged.. A few rare examples came to America with the Manual 5 speed..

The number one issue is those people on the assembly line must have the wrist strength of a 5 year old girl.. Electrical issues? Spend a day tightening all the little black ground wires all over the car and spray with a sealant..

The second issue is who has worked on it.. Face it few mechanics get a chance to tear into a V12 and I can't tell you how many engines I've seen butchered by hacks who either want to make a boat payment or other need for money.. If a Mechanic pulls out metric wrenches leave immediately.

I can't tell you how many times over heating Jag owners have been told a rebuild or new water pump is required.. The problem is most often either leaves and other trash stuck between the A/C and Radiator or lack of oil in the distributor.. Yes a few drops of oil are required in the distributor at every oil change. The Throttle linkage while basic does require proper adjustment to perform properly. The difference is amazing. While the valves are mechanical I've seen cars with well over 130,000 nice and quiet and yet never touched.. There are many simple tricks to getting and keeping the great performance the car is capable of.. Kirby wrote a Book about this car and last I checked you could still download all the excellent advice offered.

In reply to edizzle89: Drop a V8 into a XJ-S? Tons harder to do than it sounds.. First what about the instruments? The 12 cylinder tach won't work plus all the other gauges.. Then the real problem with Jaguars.. The wiring on them is insanely complex and assembled by people with the wrist strength of a 5 year old girl. So often as not the problem is a simple loose ground wire..... but which one? If you can figure out how to deal with that why not learn a tiny bit about the V12?

If you ever open one up you realize it has the strength of a Top Fuel dragster making 8000 horsepower.. without the complex rocker arms, pushrods, and other performance restricting problems. Don't worry the transmissions in them are usually Turbo 400 and the really heavy duty one used in ambulances and tow trucks.. The Rear Ends are Dana 44's nearly as bullet proof as they come..

In reply to Happy Carmore: Yes it is.. GM was buying Jaguar and after doing their due diligence realized the only modern thing at Jaguar was that 6 cylinder engine.. Jaguar Owed GM for all those transmissions so they took the engine in payment (design and tooling) and brought it here.. Ford frantic to expand rushed in with a massive offer at the last minute and found out the Engine was already gone..

In reply to Basil Exposition: During that period Car-B-Ques due to leaks in fuel injection were a regular occurrence and not with just Jaguars.. I had a Chevy Blazer that melted everything including the aluminum rims.. Early days of electronic Fuel injection every manufacturer had their share of engine fires..

In reply to HappyAndy: There were really two reasons Jaguars overheated. First leafs and other trash stuck between the radiator and the A/C, surprisingly common, more so than most cars.. Second the Distributor needs a few drops of oil in it with every oil change.. (it's in the maintenance manual which most owners don't bother to read).. Otherwise the advance freezes up but because the engine is so smooth and torquey drivers don't notice..

Yes misadjusted throttle linkage and a few other issues happened but read Kirby's book and you'll see you don't need to re-engineer it to keep it cool.

In reply to Donebrokeit: I know of several long time owners of Jaguars who drive them like they stole them and never seem to have problems. I raced a Vintage Jaguar for decades and it became as reliable as a clock at a really a tiny cost. On the other hand I constantly hear about owners who haul the car in for every little issue, real or imagined and spend a fortune on it until ownership costs force them to sell it at a great loss.

The difference is knowledge. Your willingness to learn. Just remember it is a car. And while it has certain characteristics that differ it from normal bread and butter cars, the principles are the same. Often the parts are easily sourced locally and if not better purchased from places like XK's Unlimited, Terry's Jag, etc.. than your nearest Jaguar dealer. (at least you can do some price shopping)
Used parts abound. Often in great shape at surprisingly modest costs. I routinely see low mileage cars in junkyards due to high Prices quoted to repair them relative to their cost. A classic one is a Great running XJ-S that developed a hesitation shifting gears in the automatic.. The owner took it to the dealer and a local Transmission shops and was told a complete rebuild was required. Since a rebuild was more costly than the car was worth. While he stored it trying to decide what to do the lack of oil in the distributor caused to advance mechanism to freeze up which resulted in poor fuel mileage and overheating. Since he'd already paid for tune-ups he knew what those cost. He tried to sell it as is and got offers at or below junk prices..

It's a common problem with GM turbo 400's. A simple $5.00 bushing isn't properly replaced when doing a fluid change and it causes the hesitation. The distributor needs a few drops of oil every oil change. Knowing about those simple issues would have kept a great car out of the junkyard.

If you've waited to buy a Jaguar you've missed the bottom of the prices.   I was regularly getting for free or buying for a few hundred dollars when this was last written on. 
  Today prices are approach $10,000 for even rusty ones.  Andy a local friend bought 7 Early pre HE Jaguars ( all he had room for ) and  recently sold them all in a few weeks doubtlessly making a tidy profit at the same time. 
    The rarest ones are the first 5 years of production when some years less than 1000 were built for global consumption. America tends to get slightly more than 1/2 of Jaguars made.  
    The best  ( most reliable, easiest to repair ) ones are post Ford's ownership 1990 and later.    In England prices are around £35,000 for nice V12convertibles. $=.72 £ so about ( $45,000 ). 
   While here in America nice V12 convertibles. ones are in that $25,000+ range 

  It's doubtful the XJS will catch its older XKE brother but that's a nice neighborhood to be in 
 

In reply to frenchyd :

OMG this is 5 years old and you are the last 7 replies. 

Stampie said:

In reply to frenchyd :

OMG this is 5 years old and you are the last 7 replies. 

Cuz he cares for these big catz and they've been good to him ...so that

This is on Craigslist in San Jose, CA

A little less than the $10k Frenchy mentioned

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/san-jose-1982-jaguar-xjs-coupe/7360115991.html

In reply to Type Q :

Those used to be $300.  I bought mine at $500. 

When people open the hood on a V12 and look at that maze of wires,  tubes, links and levers. I don't blame them for running away, scared. 
    In fact what they are looking at is 95+% of the problems of why perfectly good cars are parked. 
    They've seen 4 cylinders , 6 cylinders, 8 cylinders almost all of their lives. Many have worked on them. They understand how an engine works, look at it and figure they can fix it.  
  For some reason the idea of a V12 terrifies them. It's like pistons don't go up and down, valves open and close, gas goes in and timed spark makes power. 
     They hear people who don't know. That Jaguars are finicky. Unreliable. Complex and believe rumors rather than facts.  
     Hey, until very recently I did too.   Then I watched a U tube Video. Guy down in Texas  set up a little jury rigged gas tank. Laid a Megasquirt on the fender and ran a few wires.  About 5 minutes later a dead car was running and quickly started to smooth out. 
 

I'm such a Luddite I can't even do a link. 
go to U Tube Timeless Automotives V12 Jaguar Megasquirt  

and watch.  
 

As someone who mostly deals with 4 cylinder engines and gets crabby that 6 cylinder engines have 50% more parts: I don't want to pay/take the time to deal with an engine that has 2 or 3 engines' worth of parts on it! :)

Oh yeah, but can we take a moment to appreciate the Lister XJS Coupe?

Stampie said:

In reply to frenchyd :

OMG this is 5 years old and you are the last 7 replies. 

Seriously, 

How did he find this thread when it's been 5 years since the last post? 

And who is he replying to if he was the last 7 post? 

He was replying to a relevant topic that already existed.

Please don't fall into the "This perfect place to discuss this topic started a long time ago" crowd.

Many here (myself included) go longer than this between updates on their own project car.  

BA5 said:

As someone who mostly deals with 4 cylinder engines and gets crabby that 6 cylinder engines have 50% more parts: I don't want to pay/take the time to deal with an engine that has 2 or 3 engines' worth of parts on it! :)

Oh yeah, but can we take a moment to appreciate the Lister XJS Coupe?

I understand your comment about extra parts but would you complain if you found a lump of gold still attached to other non gold rocks?  
     Honestly that's the way I feel about V12's. The engine is so well built it will go a very long time but because of early days EFI  many extremely nice Jaguars are languishing in Junkyards, backyards or storage.  
    I constantly see them with less than 100,000 miles  sometimes much less for budget prices.  
     Knock some rocks  off that gold. Then see. 
 PS  it looks like it's about as complex hooking up a Megasquirt to a V12  as it is to any other engine.  ( don't forget the V12 is batch fired ) the original version used 3 VW rabbit units. To fire the injectors. 
PS thank you for the kind thing you said and for posting that beautiful Jaguar. 

In reply to yupididit :

You complainers can't have it both ways.If I resurrect an old post   To bring up something new you complain.  But if I include it in other posts you complain. 
    Do I really bother you that much?  
     I did want to compliment you. Early on I was complaining about how complex I thought hooking up a Megasquirt would be.   You said otherwise.   Well you were right and I was wrong.  Well done 

In reply to ClemSparks :

Lol okay

frenchyd said:

In reply to yupididit :

You complainers can't have it both ways.If I resurrect an old post   To bring up something new you complain.  But if I include it in other posts you complain. 
    Do I really bother you that much?  
     I did want to compliment you. Early on I was complaining about how complex I thought hooking up a Megasquirt would be.   You said otherwise.   Well you were right and I was wrong.  Well done 

I'm a Jaguar fan like most (or unlike most) but it just gets old. 

Anyway:

Did you get started on hooking yours up? 

I have a book or two that explains EFI and tuning EFI in an easy to understand way. And the books aren't that much to read. Let me know if you need them. 

I'd figured somebody had revived this with a canoe post and that got deleted. But if Frenchy just wanted to bring us a market update, that's fine by me. They're just as beautiful now as they were in 2016.

In reply to yupididit :

Thanks, I do appreciate that offer.  I've got more than a few books on just that subject.  I used to haunt the Megasquirt website but nobody on there ever seemed to  get a Jaguar running. Instead they devolved into sequential firing battles and other nonsense that might be valid in Formula  1  but no Relavance to getting a Jaguar running.  
  Then  as I started to be given cars that had been unsuccessfully tried to convert using the Megasquirt I  gave up and went back to carbs. 
   I'm glad I did.  With carbs I can race group 6 in SVRA and I'll fit in.  Simple, reliable, and adjustable. Plus the engine will look as beautiful as it actually is.  
    I still have EFI  available for when I put turbochargers on my MGuar. Now I'm wondering what I should do with my still brand new supercharger. 
A sold 650hp @ 6-8 psi  in a car well under 2000 pounds should get me towards the top of the Challenge class.  
   PS  I understand you get tired of a one trick pony  but my other interest is MG T series which really dates me.  Plus my Chevy experience isn't anything most knowledgeable Chevy people aren't aware of. Offenhauser, Coventry Climax , Ferrari,  is mainly rebuild without any in depth knowledge or research .  

frenchyd said:

I understand your comment about extra parts but would you complain if you found a lump of gold still attached to other non gold rocks?  
     Honestly that's the way I feel about V12's. The engine is so well built it will go a very long time but because of early days EFI  many extremely nice Jaguars are languishing in Junkyards, backyards or storage.  
    I constantly see them with less than 100,000 miles  sometimes much less for budget prices.  
     Knock some rocks  off that gold. Then see. 

So if I knock the rocks off the gold V12 I just found, won't I just wind back up at a 4 or 6 cylinder? 

BA5 said:

frenchyd said:

I understand your comment about extra parts but would you complain if you found a lump of gold still attached to other non gold rocks?  
     Honestly that's the way I feel about V12's. The engine is so well built it will go a very long time but because of early days EFI  many extremely nice Jaguars are languishing in Junkyards, backyards or storage.  
    I constantly see them with less than 100,000 miles  sometimes much less for budget prices.  
     Knock some rocks  off that gold. Then see. 

So if I knock the rocks off the gold V12 I just found, won't I just wind back up at a 4 or 6 cylinder? 

Something about gold is gold.  But I blew snot on that one. Well done.