DD for a non-gearhead

My brother is in the market for a new car. He has $2500 to spend on a down payment, and wants to spend about $6k-$7.5k total. He is totally, completely, utterly not a gearhead. (Lord knows we've tried...). His priorities are, in order: 1) Good mileage 2) Reliability 3) Inexpensive Insurance 4) Cargo hauling capacity 5) Available at that price with under 100k miles

Beyond that, he doesn't really care. Options are immaterial as long as it has air. He is not too big on maintenace, ergo whatever he buys should not respond poorly to minor neglect. FWD is fine, he doesn't want or need AWD.

Any thoughts? The first thing that popped into my head was a Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix, and maybe a P5....both of which would be on the high side of his budget.

I am a big proponent of the Ford Focus. It is 85% as good as a civic or corolla for about 60% of the price. You can get a nicer car for less money. Because they're so common, you essentially have your pick.

I'd say look for a ZX5 (4-door hatchback) and get one with the Duratec engine (03+ in hippy states, 05+ elsewhere). The Duratec is more powerful, efficient, and cleaner than the Zetec.

The ZX5 would be a stones throw away from a Vibe/Matrix, but easily within the budget.

finding an older CRV might work, but it'll have more than 100k miles on it.. but if its taken care of well the mileage will not matter.. I've known one with 280k on it and it ran great...

Sorry...need to clarify something. The $2500 for the down payment is coming from my grandfather, who is a rabid proponent of Consumer Reports reliability ratings. When he gave me money for a similar deal, he shot down the initial car I found...which was a Focus. CR doesn't like them. Otherwise it would be tops on the list, because they have depreciated audibly, and they are a great car.

CR-V isn't a bad idea. I'll throw it into the mix.

CR doesn't like the Focus? WTF? I mean, I recall them having a few recalls when they first came out, and that since they have proven to be very solid automobiles.

Sure, a 100k Focus will not be as good as a 100k Civic of the same year... but a 70k focus will be much nicer than a several year older 130k Civic, and will cost about the same, or even be cheaper.

Nissan Altima. As hard to kill as a Camry or Accord at 1/2 the price after depreciation.

ahh: cargo hauling.

Altima and a small trailer.

I'd think RAV4 is the answer. Perhaps Saturn wagon would suit as well.

before i got to the end of your first post, i was thinking P5. one with about 70-80k on it should be right around $6-7k

Let's look at this the other way then, what is the BEST car he can get for $10,000 max that will hold it's value and remain low maintenance for the next 100k?

oyota Camry, Hyundai Elantra, Ford Taurus, Chevrolet Malibu/Pontiac Grand Am/Olds Alero, Dodge Stratus

All of them I found hundreds of examples for between $9,000 and $10,000 2005 and newer with warranties.

Honda or Toyota. Specific models are a piddling detail.

John Brown wrote: Let's look at this the other way then, what is the BEST car he can get for $10,000 max that will hold it's value and remain low maintenance for the next 100k?

I don't think he meant $7.5k plus $2.5k down. I think that's $7.5k total.

Toyota Yaris all the way. The only problem with that car is the poor visibility, especially out the back and especially if you're tall, but that's standard stuff for modern cars. If I was forced to buy a new car with my own money it would be a Yaris.

The only problem might be cargo capacity. It has a lot for such a small car but it might not be enough...there's a 5dr short wagon available though.

foxtrapper wrote: Honda or Toyota. Specific models are a piddling detail.

Quoted for truthiness, with a slight edge to the Toyota for reliability, but the Hondoid gets that back by winning the fun to drive factor.

Salanis wrote: CR doesn't like the Focus? WTF? I mean, I recall them having a few recalls when they first came out, and that since they have proven to be very solid automobiles.

CR also doesn't like the Lotus Elise/Exige. They are clearly brain-dead morons when it comes to cars. And I second the Toyota idea.

96DXCivic wrote:

Salanis wrote: CR doesn't like the Focus? WTF? I mean, I recall them having a few recalls when they first came out, and that since they have proven to be very solid automobiles.

CR also doesn't like the Lotus Elise/Exige. They are clearly brain-dead morons when it comes to cars. And I second the Toyota idea.

Yeah, the early, early Foci had some issues. However, they are an American car, and CR still subscribes to the early 80's theory that American cars are automatically inferior to anything from Japan. But, since they liked the Miata, I got the blessing to buy one even though it's completely impractical.

So no one's saying anything I didn't really expect. The Altima idea is interesting; Per, are you talking about the early ones with the KA24 or the later, bigger ones? I've had limited experience with both.

The only thing that worries me a little is that he would rather have an automatic (he can drive a stick, just doesn't want to). Automatics, in my experience, fail earlier and are horrendously expensive to repair when they do. I know nothing about FWD automatics in general and which models have a reputation for early failure in specific (well, I know about the old Tauruses). Anyone wanna speak up?

Ford really does not build a great automatic transmission, that being said there are a quintillion Taurus on the road for a reason.

Go drive a 2006/7 Elantra, really, they are great appliances with Mitsubishi engineering and are often dead reliable.

2006/7 Chevrolet Cobalts are coming in under $9000 and I have spewed novel on my love for them.

2005/6/7 Dodge Stratus are completely unloved by the masses, you can get them for $7000 and the ONLY thing I have replace on ours are the rear shock mounts in 60000 miles.

I have an '92 Acura Integra with auto. When I bought it 3 1/2 years ago it had 125K on it. It now has 190K....with no probs from the automatic. Sure, in general, many newer automatics seem to fail (I can't think of any brand I could safely recommend) but I'm sure there are more than a few that can "go the distance".

As far as a car for this situation? Toyota Camry or Honda Civic. If it HAS to be automatic, avoid the 2001 and newer Civics (they are pushing the budget limits anyway) and avoid the late '90s Camrys with a V6.

It's obvious, this guy wants a boring/vanilla car, Camry and Civic are it.

Subaru Forester/Honda Pilot/ Scion XB

I recommend the best Toyota Celica that you can find in your price range. All the reliability and economy of a Corrola wrapped in a sportier body with the efficiency of a hatchback.

Sample: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=245355097&dealer_id=62684315&car_year=2000&model=CELICA&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=4+Cylinder&certified=&body_code=158&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=300&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&first_record=101&make=TOYOTA&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=SUV&body_style=COUPE&body_style=HATCH&body_style=SEDAN&body_style=WAGON&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=100000&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=44870&advanced=y&end_year=2009&pager.offset=100&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=314&rdpage=thumb

what kind of cargo capacity does he need, seeing as it is low on the list?

Does he need or prefer 4 doors?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned any of the crown-vic based cars. They can usually be had for nothing and have almost always been owned by boring old people that only drive to church. IIRC Consumer Reports likes them too. Honestly though, anything he can afford will be fine. People who aren't into cars don't really care what they drive. There aren't many cheap cars from the past few years that aren't decently reliable.

Other recommendations:

Ford Escort - Mostly protege, half price.

Cavalier - Mostly crap but will run forever complete with Fischer Price "My First Car" interior. You can probably buy an 04 for less than $2500 if you look long enough.

Tahoe/Suburban - Yeah, the gas mileage sucks, but prices have gone down to nothing on these.

My wife has a 4cyl Camry, and it simply won't die, no matter how much I wish it would. It gets around 30 mpg, has automatic, leather, decent enough power, a huge trunk, and reliability that would make other cars cry. Of course the only car I can find more boring to drive is a friend's Honda mini van. But she loves it.

I also have Altima experience, and would recommend one any day. It's more fun to drive than the Camry, and has really good back seat room.

Corolla or Camry wagons are dirt cheap. I bought a 97 'rolla with 41k on the clock for $4000. That's not typical, but some little old lady just got too old to drive and put it on CL. 35 or better MPG.

Honda civics and accords are right up there as well, but they tend to hold their value longer = less car for the money compared to a 'yota

Diesel SUV? Not exactly pinnacles of low maintenance, but if you can convince him to change the oil at least every 5000 they'll run forever. The GM 6.2L diesel is a workhorse and it can pretty easily get 22+ on the highway. You can often get a suburban or blazer with a 6.2 for under a grand. For $7500 he should be able to find a Powerstroke Excursion with 150k on the clock and it will still be good for another 150k. Insurance would be a tad higher, but not bad.

Pretty much any of the japanese FWD econoboxes would do. If he wants more cargo area than the sedan/coupe offers, he can hold out for the ones that come in a wagon. I'd say the little SUVs would do, but a CRV is just a civic that costs more, gets worse mileage, handles poorly, and the insurance is a little higher. No need to pay extra for less car.

older 5-series wagon? That will be dancing on the edge of the 100k mileage cap, but again, those engines are well-known for their longevity.

Ooohh... the ultimate idea... V6 GM G-body. They don't get great mileage, but they are dirt cheap, insurance is next to nothing, and they're super cheap to fix. El Camino, Malibu wagon, Cutlass, Grand Prix, Monte Carlo. Some of them even came with the Olds 350 diesel which isn't as bad as everyone thinks. Fix the head bolt issues and you're done. Give it clean fuel and enjoy 30 mpg.

Focuses are stellar cars, as long as FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT GET THE SOHC ENGINE. They like to eat exhaust seats with little/no warning, which instantly renders the whole engine unusable. Debris gets blown into the intake manifold, where it gets distributed everywhere else in the engine. It's sad, and a little disappointing because the 2.0l CVH is a pretty nice engine to drive, if a little buzzy.

Zetec, or Duratec. Preferably Duratec since the Zetecs seem to have an appetite for timing belt idler pulleys. Fortunately, we haven't seen one bend valves after the belt jumps time/comes off, but lining the cams back up can be a bitch if it has the VCT. The Zetec is otherwise a CVH with a much better cylinder head.