Did we just cross a manual/automatic transmission availability threshold?

I don't think there's a model in current production and sold in the US market that can only be bought with a three-pedal manual transmission.

Viper production just ended. As far as I know, the Viper was never available with anything but a manual transmission. Last time Viper took a break, the Elise was around, and was manual only.

Right now, and in production today, is there any production car, pickup, minivan or SUV model that cannot be bought with anything other than a three pedal manual transmission?

I know there are trims within models are are manual only, (Civic Type R, Porsche 911R) and drivetrain restrictions (Juke Nismo FWD is manual only). I'm talking about models.

And for the sake of argument, manual transmissions have three pedals and a gear selector. Double and single clutch systems aren't manuals under my definition. Fixed single speed systems that don't change gear, like a Tesla or Leaf also aren't manuals.

I'm betting it'll take ten minutes for someone to prove me wrong.

Something built by Kenworth, maybe?

I'd bet, within your intended target of passenger cars and light trucks, nobody will prove you wrong.

Streetwiseguy wrote: Something built by Kenworth, maybe?

Even most of those have an auto trans option available based on the definition given in the first post.

Does an Ariel Atom count?

Morgan 4/4?

Do saleen, Hennessey, etc count?

Since you laid out very strict criteria for what constitutes a manual but didn't insist on it being a car ...

Just about every single motorcycle model sold in the United States excepting a few notable exceptions are sold solely with a clutch and manual gear selector but would fail your test based on the number of pedals since the clutch, throttle and front brake are hand controls.

You can also still buy a 2017 Elise in the US, you just can't legally drive it on the road.

In reply to Mike:

I wouldn't call a honda civic type r or honda civic si trims, they are different models. If you take the new civic hatch as an example, you can only get a manual on the base trim.

Unfortunately it seems like everything's going auto/DCT. Even the regular slushbox-based transmissions nowadays can shift super quickly and reliably, so manufacturers chasing after fuel economy and/or 0-60 times have stopped putting in the technically "inferior" manuals. Even BMW is moving away from manuals, with the new M5 only being available with a ZF 8-speed auto. Manuals are an enthusiast-only preference at this point, since they no longer have the edge in fuel efficiency and reliability.

I have noticed that on the used car market, manual trans cars out there seem to be unsellable. As a buyer it seems you can name your own price if wanting to buy a manual trans. I'm not talking things like Miata but more like Corolla or Focus. These cars seem to just sit and sit on CL.

Personally, I do not think I would try to sell something mundane like a Saturn Ion with an manual trans right now but if you need some cheap transportation, I bet you could get a killer deal on something basic like this that no one else will buy.

Focus RS and ST are manual only, I think.

Viper was the very last on the single model cars that only came in Manual. At least that I am aware of, everything else is now available as both or only automatic.

Unless you count the GT4 as a different model from the Cayman.

Sorry for the restrictions. I was actually trying to capture a particular situation. A buyer in 1995 wants to buy a new Samurai automatic, and is directed to a Sidekick instead. A Carrera GT buyer gets shown a 911 Turbo. You cannot buy that model of car with an automatic at all. The Dodge dealer with a Viper buyer unprepared to drive stick didn't have a configuration or preferred option group. There's no Viper trim that bundles leather, nav, forward braking warning, lane keep assist, and an automatic. The only save was trying to brag about the Challenger.

I don't have time to check right now, but I bet the Morgan and the Elise (I failed to say road legal, but really should have) are winners.

Tom_Spangler wrote: Focus RS and ST are manual only, I think.

They aren't separate models, just trimlines on the existing Focus.

Also, I'm soooo happy to be having this conversation here. Again. /Sarcasm

As much as I personally want a manual transmission, if I were trying to sell a car in today's market, you can bet it will have an automatic option of some sort. Otherwise, they're just "halo" models to get brand attention and aren't really meant to make money (I lump the Focus RS and Civic Type R into that category).

dannyzabolotny wrote: Unfortunately it seems like everything's going auto/DCT. Even the regular slushbox-based transmissions nowadays can shift super quickly and reliably, so manufacturers chasing after fuel economy and/or 0-60 times have stopped putting in the technically "inferior" manuals. Even BMW is moving away from manuals, with the new M5 only being available with a ZF 8-speed auto. Manuals are an enthusiast-only preference at this point, since they no longer have the edge in fuel efficiency and reliability.

They have been for more than a decade at this point.

John Welsh wrote: I have noticed that on the used car market, manual trans cars out there seem to be unsellable. As a buyer it seems you can name your own price if wanting to buy a manual trans. I'm not talking things like Miata but more like Corolla or Focus. These cars seem to just sit and sit on CL. Personally, I do not think I would try to sell something mundane like a Saturn Ion with an manual trans right now but if you need some cheap transportation, I bet you could get a killer deal on something basic like this that no one else will buy.

Depends which cars you're looking at. Basic economy cars with manuals are a hard sell for sure. But a sport sedan (like a BMW 540i or M5) with a manual is worth more than an equivalent car with an auto, because of the enthusiast market.

And when it comes to exotics, manuals are usually much more expensive. Compare a gated manual Ferrari 360 to an F1 Ferrari 360, the manual will always sell for a lot more.

dannyzabolotny wrote:

John Welsh wrote: I have noticed that on the used car market, manual trans cars out there seem to be unsellable. As a buyer it seems you can name your own price if wanting to buy a manual trans. I'm not talking things like Miata but more like Corolla or Focus. These cars seem to just sit and sit on CL. Personally, I do not think I would try to sell something mundane like a Saturn Ion with an manual trans right now but if you need some cheap transportation, I bet you could get a killer deal on something basic like this that no one else will buy.

Depends which cars you're looking at. Basic economy cars with manuals are a hard sell for sure. But a sport sedan (like a BMW 540i or M5) with a manual is worth more than an equivalent car with an auto, because of the enthusiast market. And when it comes to exotics, manuals are usually much more expensive. Compare a gated manual Ferrari 360 to an F1 Ferrari 360, the manual will always sell for a lot more.

This is true for sure. Shop for Miatas and the automatics are worth significantly less. Shop Honda Fits and you'll see the manuals for less.

Seems to be the same for unicorns. Cayennes seem to cost more with a stick, for example. Cadillac CTS-V Wagons...

Mike wrote: I don't think there's a model in current production and sold in the US market that can only be bought with a three-pedal manual transmission.

Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Focus RS, Mustang GT350 (whatever model comes with the bonkers 5.2l engine), Subaru WRX STI.

Off the top of my head.

dannyzabolotny wrote: Unfortunately it seems like everything's going auto/DCT.

Which really sucks, because if you want a turbo, a good torque converter is a godsend.

Twin clutch transmissions are basically the worst parts of having a manual and the worst parts of having an automatic, from a performance perspective.

Now, CVTs on the other hand.

In reply to Knurled:

Agreed.

CVTs are good in theory, but rarely well done (and they feel like poop to drive even when done well).

A dual clutch is like having a manual with the clutch operated by your passenger, just a poorly done kludge.

Torque converter autos can be good when done right though. And yes, turbos and torque converters go together great.

rslifkin wrote: In reply to Knurled: Agreed. CVTs are good in theory, but rarely well done (and they feel like poop to drive even when done well). A dual clutch is like having a manual with the clutch operated by your passenger, just a poorly done kludge. Torque converter autos can be good when done right though. And yes, turbos and torque converters go together great.

Every CVT I have driven has been so horrible to drive it's not even funny. Even my wife who is not an enthusiast remarked how horrible the transmission in a rental was (she didn't even know it was a CVT). I want to like them in theory, but it's like I'm being conditioned to hate them.

rslifkin wrote: A dual clutch is like having a manual with the clutch operated by your passenger, just a poorly done kludge.

I dunno which dual clutches you've driven, but the one in my Audi is pretty much flawless from an execution standpoint -- very fast to shift and not herky-jerky at all. It delivers the effortlessness of an automatic, without the disconnected feeling you get from having that stupid torque converter in there.

On a track there's nothing close to as fast the dual clutch trannies in a modern Porsche or other high end sports car.

That said, I still think a traditional manual is more fun and driver-involving. As I see it, it goes like this:

Traditional manuals are for sports cars.

Flappy paddle dual clutches are for race cars and daily drivers in traffic.

Traditional torque converter automatics are for tow vehicles (and my wife's car).

CVTs are garbage.

Torque converter automatics are also huge in the hot-rodding world. There are beefed up autos that can take massive power without breaking. Like there are dudes running chevy big blocks with giant blowers pushing out close to 1000hp with automatics. If you're aiming for burnouts, automatics are the way to go.

Also, drag racing is predominantly based around automatics, due to the torque converter's ability to quickly transfer massive amounts of torque to the wheels without burning up like a clutch. Most professional drag racers have crazy overbuilt automatic 3-speeds with manual valve bodies and crazy ratcheting shifters.