Do what does the Hive prefer for SA2020 Helmets

HI All,

As I have the Rabbit just about ready for Autox season It's time for some fresh Hoosiers and a new full face helmet.  Use of said helmet will be 90% autocross 10% lapping day HDPE.  I'm thinking $500 or less for budget with a focus on lowest weight and most comfortable.  

For weight it appears affordable helmets range from 3-4lbs.

Do folks have any strong feelings about which brands/models to avoid as well as which seem to be the best quality?

Initial looks at the market showed the below that kind of hit the mark.

Zamp RZ-60 Aramid SA2020 Helmet

Zamp RZ-56 SA2020 Helmet

G-FORCE SA2020 REVO Helmet

Speedway Motors SA2020 Carbon Fiber

Conquer SA2020 Carbon Fiber

Gforce Revo SA2020

I have a Zamp RZ-36, and I found it comfortable for track use, though I don't have a lot of use out of it yet.

I was using a Zamp helmet; it fit me well (most important) and was comfortable enough (note I've kept the Zamp as a back up helmet)  My only issue with it is the fit and finish on the interior is not that great, nothing wrong with it but it's clear it is a bargain helmet. Also note the cheek pads on the Zamp are very tight, some folks don't like this.

I've previously used G-force helmets and liked them fine.

I'm currently using an Arai helmet; I bought an SA2015 last year on close out for $650..........it's worlds away from the Zamp.

I change my helmets every 5 years anyway so the SA2015 wasn't a big deal to me. I'm also now racing an open wheel car so I wanted something better than the Zamp or G-Force.

My .02

Helmet fit is very individual. I've found the Pyrotect size Small is a perfect fit for me ... much better than all the other brands I've tried over the years. Lucky for me, because Pyrotect is pretty cheap. Their full-carbon SA2020 models are $800 and fiberglass is just under $350.

LanEvo said:

Helmet fit is very individual. 

This.  As I say in most "what helmet" threads, heads are not all the same shape and a single dimension number is not enough to properly fit one.  Different manufacturer use different head forms for their helmets, so unless you already know what brand fits you best (in which case you should just buy that one) there really is no alternative to going down to a brick-and-mortar store and trying a bunch of them on.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

LanEvo said:

Helmet fit is very individual. 

This.  As I say in most "what helmet" threads, heads are not all the same shape and a single dimension number is not enough to properly fit one.  Different manufacturer use different head forms for their helmets, so unless you already know what brand fits you best (in which case you should just buy that one) there really is no alternative to going down to a brick-and-mortar store and trying a bunch of them on.

 

Agreed - Unfortunately the only places around are motorcycle/powersports dealerships but will give a couple a try and see.  I don't mind paying more in store for something that fits vs online but most of the places that used to do this are a victim of the internet.

84FSP said:

Agreed - Unfortunately the only places around are motorcycle/powersports dealerships but will give a couple a try and see.  I don't mind paying more in store for something that fits vs online but most of the places that used to do this are a victim of the internet.

Have you looked for a place that caters to the circle track guys?  They use the same kind of helmets.

I'll see what Lawrenceburg near the speedway has to offer - good suggestion.

I thank you for asking a question that I've been meaning to ask.  I'm hopeful to get to an autocross or a few as well as try out a hpde before the end of the summer.

I have no experience with the 2020 helmets but I've had a couple of gforces. They fit me well and seem to hold up well. In between I had a bell and it didn't fit my head as well. Looking at it you could tell some of the materials were slightly nicer but it didn't age any better, actually worse if anything. The lesson I took from that was that more expensive helmets aren't exactly necessarily better, and just went back to the chest helmets. Fitment is most important by far, weight probably the second biggest factor, though if you're primarily using it for autocross, the likelihood of you being in a crash substantial enough where helmet weight makes a noticeable difference is pretty low.

Everyone always says to try them on, but I don't know of a single brick-and-mortar near me that sells SA helmets. Fortunately for me, I must have a 95th percentile head, because I've had several brands, and the XL always seems to fit me.

Since this topic came up again, I'll repeat my question from the other thread: How do we feel about full-face helmets in street cars that have airbags? Seems to me that if that bomb goes off, it might push the helmet back more than it would if there were no chin guard and put more force on the neck. Talking about HPDE, so no HANS device or anything. Am I off base with this thinking?

It's hitting something no matter what, if that thing is a properly fitting and well secured helmet I don't really see how it could be any worse than hitting your face directly.

I am somewhat lucky that I live close to the jegs retail store in columbus. They don't keep very much in stock, but you can order a helmet in, try it on at pickup, and then return it on the spot if you don't like it. I see OP is in cincy, it might be worth checking inventory/ordering a few things and then driving up and picking the best one if nothing is closer. But I thought I remembered there being somewhere in the cincy area that carried helmets.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

LanEvo said:

Helmet fit is very individual. 

This.  As I say in most "what helmet" threads, heads are not all the same shape and a single dimension number is not enough to properly fit one.  Different manufacturer use different head forms for their helmets, so unless you already know what brand fits you best (in which case you should just buy that one) there really is no alternative to going down to a brick-and-mortar store and trying a bunch of them on.

 

Yup, 100%.  Even if there are no brick and mortar stores nearby, do it via trial and error returns if you have to.  Helmet fit is so individual.  If it's SA2020 compliant, you're in good shape no matter which one you pick.  In autox, I don't think it matters a ton anyway, speeds aren't high enough and likelyhood of actually hitting something very hard is minimal.  The more important thing is for HPDE...do you have a good neck restraint?  Best helmet on the planet isn't worth E36 M3 if your neck snaps in half.

I had a Pyrotect 2010 full face and it was a decent helmet. Lasted 10 years anyway. They seem to run a little small based on their size charts.  It was very snug and I was in the middle of the range for the size I bought.

Now I have a G-force 2020 open face. It seems like a nicely made helmet - a little nicer than the Pyrotect.

HJC and Shoei are the two that have always fit my head the best. AGV when I rode motorcycles fit well and were super comfortable, but a bit on the heavy side. 

dps214 said:

It's hitting something no matter what, if that thing is a properly fitting and well secured helmet I don't really see how it could be any worse than hitting your face directly.

I did some Googling and found a few forum posts from ~2004 that quoted an SCCA advisory on this topic:

"It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys the airbad. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to the driver's position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver's chin. In a crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full face helmet can be so powerful "that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out" (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3?AF, 18.5.1999). This applies to vehicles that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car Control Clinics, etc.

Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at 800.770.2055."

I can't find any updates to this, so I don't know if it's been changed or rescinded.

Zamp never fit my head properly so I went the G-Force. It was a similar shaped helmet like a old Bell that I had. If there is a place local to try them on that is best. I went to Track First neat cleveland.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

dps214 said:

It's hitting something no matter what, if that thing is a properly fitting and well secured helmet I don't really see how it could be any worse than hitting your face directly.

I did some Googling and found a few forum posts from ~2004 that quoted an SCCA advisory on this topic:

"It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys the airbad. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to the driver's position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver's chin. In a crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full face helmet can be so powerful "that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out" (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3?AF, 18.5.1999). This applies to vehicles that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car Control Clinics, etc.

Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at 800.770.2055."

I can't find any updates to this, so I don't know if it's been changed or rescinded.

This may be the first time I'm happy about the utter lack of safety devices on the 84 Rabbit, aside from a beefy harness bar, race recaros, and 5 point harnesses.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

I can't find any updates to this, so I don't know if it's been changed or rescinded.

Given that this was almost 20 years ago and there hasn't been any update, I think it's probably safe to conclude that it didn't turn out to be a serious issue.  Lots of people have autoxed and done HPDE with full face helmets and airbags since then, if it was a big deal there would be data.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

I can't find any updates to this, so I don't know if it's been changed or rescinded.

Given that this was almost 20 years ago and there hasn't been any update, I think it's probably safe to conclude that it didn't turn out to be a serious issue.  Lots of people have autoxed and done HPDE with full face helmets and airbags since then, if it was a big deal there would be data.

 

That makes sense.

To echo what's been said, I used to sell motorcycles and we sold Arai and Shoei helmets. I've never met a customer who would be comfortable in both; people would have a "Shoei head" or an "Arai head" and couldn't stand wearing the other brand.

My old open-face (I forget the brand) caused a pressure point against my forehead and would give me a headache after a couple of sessions. My last 2 Racequips have been fine.

Without trying them you might luck out and get something that fits you, but then again you might not ... 

Hit a few places in town today that cater to the powersport and motorcycle crowd.  Unfortunately not a single SA2020 rated brain bucket among them.  On the bright side I did try on an HJC which was reasonably comfortable in an XL.  

I've been geeking out on helmet weights for the last hour and oddly it seems that one of the lightest ~$500 helmets out there is a Speedway Motorsports branded bucket at 3.5lbs.  Semi hilarious as it is almost the cheapest thing out there, which does make me nervous.

https://www.amazon.com/Speedway-Motors-SA2020-Lightweight-Racing/dp/B08L5LXN27/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3OPWQVO3SK5G0&keywords=sa2020+helmet&qid=1647713532&refinements=p_n_size_seven_browse-vebin%3A8150031011&rnid=8150023011&s=automotive&sprefix=sa2020+helmet%2Caps%2C66&sr=1-5

On other fronts the 255/40/13 A7's arrived and I dropped them off to the tire guy along with the panasports this morning.  Helmet plus a bit more tuning on Rabbit fuel system and we'll be good to go.

Pyrotec and Sparco on offer here I can help with sizing as well.