Keith Tanner said:
The six cylinder was being listed in the wrong place. BaT buyers aren't looking for cheap driver quality XJs. That Jag-powered car looked like it was a little problematic, a long list of recent mechanical work is either a sign of a needy car or a well-sorted one, and the list of other problems made it seem a bit like the latter. Put it on CL for twice that and someone will come by and fall in love. Give a bunch of pedants a week to poke holes in the car and it'll expose all the flaws. The words "gross polluter" four tests running in CA are a bit of a damper too. It just wasn't a standout car, and the fact that there were only 6 bids attests to that.
The V8 car was a good example of the breed. Would an equivalent I6 have done better? Hard to say. I'll bet the V8 would be an easy car to live with, and that's what the market responded to. The timing of the sale - not over Christmas - probably helped. So did the quality of the photography, always my first recommendation for anyone looking to get the most out of their sale. The six looked like a cellphone in the hands of an amateur, the eight looked like a pro who understands light and settings. Plus there were clearly multiple people who wanted it.
The one I'd want to take home is this pretty thing. And I'm not the only one.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1975-jaguar-xj-coupe-12/
That is VERY close to perfection.
Does a Chubby boat anchor make a Jaaaaag better or more valuable? Sure, if you value practicality over passion, in which case may I suggest Camry. But if you have a heart and soul then no, it wrecks them.
This post brought to you with 21.3% sarcasm.
A 401 CJ said:
Keith Tanner said:
The six cylinder was being listed in the wrong place. BaT buyers aren't looking for cheap driver quality XJs. That Jag-powered car looked like it was a little problematic, a long list of recent mechanical work is either a sign of a needy car or a well-sorted one, and the list of other problems made it seem a bit like the latter. Put it on CL for twice that and someone will come by and fall in love. Give a bunch of pedants a week to poke holes in the car and it'll expose all the flaws. The words "gross polluter" four tests running in CA are a bit of a damper too. It just wasn't a standout car, and the fact that there were only 6 bids attests to that.
The V8 car was a good example of the breed. Would an equivalent I6 have done better? Hard to say. I'll bet the V8 would be an easy car to live with, and that's what the market responded to. The timing of the sale - not over Christmas - probably helped. So did the quality of the photography, always my first recommendation for anyone looking to get the most out of their sale. The six looked like a cellphone in the hands of an amateur, the eight looked like a pro who understands light and settings. Plus there were clearly multiple people who wanted it.
The one I'd want to take home is this pretty thing. And I'm not the only one.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1975-jaguar-xj-coupe-12/
That's an interesting one. I thought '75 and up came under smog rules in Cali. That's a '75 and yet I see no cats except the ones on the fenders and grille :-)
Made me look. It's 75 and under that are exempt. So this one gets through.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/smog-inspections/
Toyman!
MegaDork
1/27/23 12:19 p.m.
frenchyd said:
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Not only Jaguar but any EFI from The 1970's through to 2000 is long ago in the junk yards.
Not all of them. Some of us are gluttons for punishment. 
It's such a hilariously wrong statement. I've got something like 8 vehicles with EFI from 1970-2000 in my personal fleet.
The average age of the US vehicle fleet is over 12 years, and while I've never seen a distribution that means there's a pretty large number of pre-2001 cars still functioning. Since the last carburetted car sold in the US was a 1990 model, that means any surviving vehicle from the 90's fits this description. They are very clearly not all in junkyards.
Toyman! said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Not only Jaguar but any EFI from The 1970's through to 2000 is long ago in the junk yards.
Not all of them. Some of us are gluttons for punishment.
That might be considered EFI, if you think of it as having fuel injectors open all the time and the electronics control the fuel pressure regulator.
I am assuming that is the Motronic version of KE-Jetronic. Porsche used it on 911 Turbos up to 1994 model year!
In reply to Keith Tanner :
You strike me as the exception that proves the rule. I go to car shows and visit the car scene as often as possible.
I haven't seen a 80's 90's Cadillac, Buick, etc with the original EFI, even the Early C4 Corvettes all have carbs if they are running on the street.
You almost never see VW rabbits or Alfa's of that era either.
Even in the Jaguar club V12's are rarely seen. Most owners with really nice cars worthy of display are reluctant to drive them outside their comfort zone.
Too often the nice V12's stay home in the garage while newer or older versions go on display.
Not all obviously, some owners proudly drive all over. ( without problems ) plus you see the last models. (93-97) driven to events.
In reply to frenchyd :
Do you ever just walk down the street? Seriously, they're everywhere. Car shows are not a representiative sample of the driving public, unless the driving public mostly drives 1960's American iron with lawn chairs in the back. People are not ripping the EFI out of every 90's car to keep them on the road.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Toyman! said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Not only Jaguar but any EFI from The 1970's through to 2000 is long ago in the junk yards.
Not all of them. Some of us are gluttons for punishment.
That might be considered EFI, if you think of it as having fuel injectors open all the time and the electronics control the fuel pressure regulator.
I am assuming that is the Motronic version of KE-Jetronic. Porsche used it on 911 Turbos up to 1994 model year!
Well said Pete. We are gluttons for punishment. Were you aware the first EFI in V12's was 3 VW rabbit units 3x4= 12 ? It also had the biggest injectors and the only one that was at all adjustable.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Please remember I live in the headquarters of the rust belt. 30-40 year old cars have long ago been shredded. And early 2000's is actually getting rare. Even a lot of Corvettes of that era have frames and etc rusting away.
So yes I don't see them. Mechanically they are low miles and solid. Interiors also tend to be nice.
You've seen the two XJ6's I bought didn't you? They were tried to be sold all summer. The only offer he ever received in spite of all of his marketing was $500ea. for both rear ends my offer of cleaning them up and keeping them original allowed him to select my offer of $500 each.
In reply to frenchyd :
A 1999 Toyota is a 24 year old car, but I do understand the rust belt. Those cars have not disappeared because their EFI is unworkable, but due to rust. Around here, we don't have the rust but we have many, many 1990's era cars. They are soldiering on just fine. Their EFI is not making them disappear. Again, the AVERAGE age of the US fleet is over 12 years, and you don't get that without a significant portion of the national fleet being twice that age.
Junk Jaguars being junk just means old crusty Jaguars aren't desireable.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Since it costs $20,000 to have a professional swap to a 3/4 (8 cylinders instead of 12) cast iron engine . There must be value to them. At least in some people's eyes.
I'll bet those guys that pulled the 6 cylinder and crammed a V8 into an XKE are sure sorry now.
frenchyd said:
...I go to car shows and visit the car scene as often as possible.
I haven't seen a 80's 90's Cadillac, Buick, etc with the original EFI...
That's cause they're all being driven daily in the Metro Detroit area, either grandpa's car he bought new when he was working at the plant, or winter beaters on their 5th owner.
All still chugging along on the original EFI
Less now because rust kills cars but they are still definitely part of the scenery.
In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :
Glad to hear it. I guess I'm wrong.
frenchyd said:
In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :
Glad to hear it. I guess I'm wrong.
I have three cars myself currently. The newest is 26 years old. All of them are driven frequently on the original EFI they were manufactured with. Even my C4 has OEM fuel injection and not a carb swap as you spoke of seeing. All you have to do is get out of the rust belt. They're everywhere. Rockauto keeps me rolling.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Actually that's one of the reasons I like them. The resale value quickly tanks yet the hardware engine suspension, brakes etc. seem to never break or wear out.
I raced my last Jaguar from 1976 to 2002 and then it was bought and raced for even longer. Not once did anything break or blow up. It's currently on display in the Packard Museum
My Jaguar XJS will be on the track for less than $5000 and 1/2 of that is because I want to make my partner comfortable. He has no experience shifting a Dog ring gearbox so a synchro gearbox is in the works.
Following that will be An XKE unlike the factory ever thought of. Series 1 roadster but fiberglass not steel. Wire wheels. Then a V12 instead of the six.
It wouldn't it be fun to add a little boost to excite things?
I think the real goal is to tow the XKE with the Jaguar sedan.
I see a fair number of 80's jags on the road around the DC area. Some 80's stuff too fairly regularly. Hell, a couple times I've even seen yugos rolling around in the last 6 years or so.
Heck, before kids my daily driver was an obd1 Miata. As recently as 2018. And I happen to know it's still on the road out in Ohio as of a few months ago.
Well, the cool thing about all of this is I can feel free to swap my own jag with less fear of killing the value!
It would seem that the value is based more on the quality of the car and workmanship that anything else.
Not that even a $13k car is really all that "valuable".
In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
Clean swaps in clean Jag cars with working AC and nice interior seem to do well.
frenchyd said:
In reply to Keith Tanner :
You strike me as the exception that proves the rule. I go to car shows and visit the car scene as often as possible.
I haven't seen a 80's 90's Cadillac, Buick, etc with the original EFI, even the Early C4 Corvettes all have carbs if they are running on the street.
You almost never see VW rabbits or Alfa's of that era either.
Even in the Jaguar club V12's are rarely seen. Most owners with really nice cars worthy of display are reluctant to drive them outside their comfort zone.
Too often the nice V12's stay home in the garage while newer or older versions go on display.
Not all obviously, some owners proudly drive all over. ( without problems ) plus you see the last models. (93-97) driven to events.
I have seen lots of c4 corvettes in person and the only one that had a carb was an autocross only 94 convertible with a small block 427.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:
Well, the cool thing about all of this is I can feel free to swap my own jag with less fear of killing the value!
It would seem that the value is based more on the quality of the car and workmanship that anything else.
Not that even a $13k car is really all that "valuable".
You'd be shocked at how difficult a engine swap to a Chevy in a Jaguar. I stumble across a lot of them partially done. Tach and speedometer are missing or replaced with something completely wrong. A/C not hooked up or other items left unfinished. Compared to replacing one engine with another of the same make. Pros charge $20,000 to do it. I assume that includes the price of a Target master, the kit from Johns cars and a transmission as well . Plus all the rest of what's needed.
What year is yours again?
Right now I have a spare 4.2 with only 53,000 miles on it. Running when put away back in the 1980's good tranny.
But for the price of gas to come and get it I'm sure you can find several in the Chicago area. For very modest money. To check prices go to Car-parts. Com
The engine is really durable. Just keep 20w50 oil filled up. Change it at least once a year. Every 2 years flush the radiator. Put in 50% antifreeze and 50% distilled water. No tap water!!!' Keep the fuel filter fresh.
Do you want to smoke the tires of your Jag? Which do you want to talk about ? Gross or net power?
Jaguar 6 cylinder 4.2 170 DIN net.
265 Advertized.
Chevy V8 cylinder 5.7. 160 SAE Net
250. 255. 300
Advertized. For information DIN is 1.1% more than SAE
SO TIRE SMOKING? Not really. But the Chevy engine is going to be 144 pounds lighter. It will have a cast Iron crankshaft and rods. While the Jaguar has a forged steel crankshaft and rods. The Jaguar is also Hemi Headed. And that's aluminum. So stock it flows better.
The Chevy does have more lift in their camshaft. By .075 but the Jaguar is solid while the Chevy is hydraulic.
yupididit said:
In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
Clean swaps in clean Jag cars with working AC and nice interior seem to do well.
I wonder for how much longer? Prices for nice XJS V12's are steady in the $20,000 range here in the US and £35,000 in England and globally.
Some years only 1000 were sold globally and the 21 years they were in production only 121,000 were made.
If you look at the XKE when they started reaching those numbers the V8's came out to be replaced by original engines. Now a Nice XKE is up to $150,000 more if it's a special one. But parts car prices with a V8.
I understand someone putting anything in a nice body to get some use out of it. Then there will be those attracted to the beauty of the Jaguar but familiar with Chevy's.
But math is always math. Collectors want originality.
Oh there are a few special people who can turn anything into art. They get a reputation and then die. Those will remain valuable.
But Joe Putz down the street?
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm willing to bet that majority of Jags that are Chevy swapped are not particularly desirable or rare XJ6's. Not the XKE's and premium condition XJS-12's that you are referring to support your position. An XKE is a terrible datapoint because they're pricy in rust bucket condition. You always brag about how cheap they are then talk about how valuable they are, which one is it?
Another thing, tach and AC had been figured out on these swaps for almost 3 decades, it's rather simple and easy. Probably, the easier part of the swaps. And the most common kits are almost plug and play at this point. People are finishing these swaps in a single day now, then taking it to get exhaust finished the next day.
yupididit said:
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm willing to bet that majority of Jags that are Chevy swapped are not particularly desirable or rare XJ6's. Not the XKE's and premium condition XJS-12's that you are referring to support your position. An XKE is a terrible datapoint because they're pricy in rust bucket condition. You always brag about how cheap they are then talk about how valuable they are, which one is it?
Another thing, tach and AC had been figured out on these swaps for almost 3 decades, it's rather simple and easy. Probably, the easier part of the swaps. And the most common kits are almost plug and play at this point. People are finishing these swaps in a single day now, then taking it to get exhaust finished the next day.
I support any persons right to do whatever they want with a car they own.
I'm far from a purist because I'm a racer and whatever works is what I like best.
If you notice I try to point out the alternatives. And reasons why you shouldn't.
Example? The cost of a swap in time and money. A good running used Chevy engine and transmission is more expensive and takes more time than just replacing the original engine. Plus you don't have to fabricate or buy alternative motor mounts, change or fix the tach and speedometer modify the exhaust. Change the drive shaft.
Power? Don't be fooled the Chevy 350 makes 160 hp net. The Jag 4.2 makes 170+ 1.1% A decent running Jag 4.2 engine can make 4-500 hp with boost It will cost less to do that than swap in a Chevy engine and transmission.
The Borg Warner model 12 is actually stronger than a turbo 350. ( both are made in America) Now I'm not a fan of the Borg Warner so I would swap in a Trimec or some other manual transmission. But again I'm not a purist.
Finally. You asked about XKE Use Hagerty prices and I'll agree.
I can make a very cheap XKE because I'm building a race car from scrap. Nothing has to be original. . The frame ( front 1/2 weighs 22 pounds). the body ? I doubt I'll have $500 in it. Mechanicals I've got from free rust out cars I scrapped. Decades ago. In fact most of the mechanicals I took apart so I could sell "clean" aluminum and other metals. Instruments? Grab some old ones off the shelf.
Some of the money I'll have in it will be for modern safety gear. But if it's not mandated I'm not counting it.
Hence the undocumented part.
