I'm just curious what we may be offered for the Mazda when they back to us in 7-10 days.
2018 Silver Mazda 3 Touring, black leatherette, 60k miles, auto. Incredibly clean car until Mother Nature said "Not so fast, bucco."
New generation started in 2019. I've only been able to find 1, 3rd gen in seemingly comparable shape within 200 miles.
The vast majority use a third party vendor, typically a company called CCC. They give the vendor the car info, including VIN numbers, and it comes up with a value. Adjusters don't have direct access. Start looking around for cars as close to yours as possible and use that as a frame of reference.
'18 Touring w/ 59k @ $16.8k Kansas
'18 Touring w/60k @ $14k Dallas but reported SALVAGE REBUILD so that doesn't count.
'18 Touring w/73k @ $18k Houston
'18 Touring hatch w/50k @ $17.2k San Antonio
'18 Touring w/76k @ $16.5 Kansas
$16.5k to $17.5k sound like a good number
Thanks gents.
John Welsh, that would be fantastic. I didn't look that far out. I found one in OKC, but it had higher mileage, wasn't as nice, and had obvious hail damage as well. Just not as bad as ours.
Staying closer to home for the valuation is best but if that returns insufficient results then expand a little further to see if you can find replicable results.
I have access, but can't run anything without a claim number unless I want to get fired.
I advise folks to use kbb.com (which is now owned by JD Power). Put in all your car info and eventually it will take you to 'trade-in value'. On that screen there is a tab for 'private party'. Click that. The figures there will be very close to what insurance value typically is.
Insurance value is NOT retail value. Read the fine print. That is a dealership's asking price, with a car that has been recon'd, serviced and likely has a warranty. That is not what a private individual is driving.
We toss out comparable cars that are more than 100 or so miles away as the market can be very different, which affects values.
My experience with CCC is they will find the cheapest couple cars with the same model name within several hundred miles. Then they ignore trim, correcting for it in their favor. They then ignore condition, assuming that the cheapest listed car is in excellent + shape. Then they assume you're an expert negotiator and can knock a bunch off internet prices. Of course your car that has been sitting in the wreckers year is deducted condition for not being freshly detailed and sale ready. CCC is probably about as close to a fraudulent tool as their lawyers can make it.
In reply to ddavidv :
Thanks for the heads up. I didn't work on the auto side, I was on the fire side. What if there are no comparables within 100 miles?
In reply to theruleslawyer:
Granted the only time I've had to make a claim, it wasn't totaled (but still around $9500 in 2017 dollars), but it was a relatively painless experience. I took it to a preferred shop, they fixed it back to like it was never in an accident, I paid my deductible and took it home.
theruleslawyer said:My experience with CCC is they will find the cheapest couple cars with the same model name within several hundred miles. Then they ignore trim, correcting for it in their favor. They then ignore condition, assuming that the cheapest listed car is in excellent + shape. Then they assume you're an expert negotiator and can knock a bunch off internet prices. Of course your car that has been sitting in the wreckers year is deducted condition for not being freshly detailed and sale ready. CCC is probably about as close to a fraudulent tool as their lawyers can make it.
My 6 speed manual 2010 CTS-V that didn't have a rip or stain on the interior, nor a dent, ding or scratch, <100k miles, was worth $27k according to insurance when it totaled (due to no longer produced curtain airbags not being available).
Told em I'd buy every single comp they had that got them to that value. Surprise, surprise they were ALL automatics. They make no allowance for details like that that really do drive value in the real world.
Same thing happened with my custom ordered 2002 Lariat F350 that had a 6 speed manual after a 92 year old woman T-boned me. There was one available in the country for sale to replace it that was a diesel, 4wd, Lariat, manual trans. They were asking 3 times what insurance valued my truck at. Insurance co. sent me a bunch of Lariat automatics to justify their valuation.
Spearfishin said:My 6 speed manual 2010 CTS-V that didn't have a rip or stain on the interior, nor a dent, ding or scratch, <100k miles, was worth $27k according to insurance when it totaled (due to no longer produced curtain airbags not being available).
Told em I'd buy every single comp they had that got them to that value. Surprise, surprise they were ALL automatics. They make no allowance for details like that that really do drive value in the real world.
Same thing happened with my custom ordered 2002 Lariat F350 that had a 6 speed manual after a 92 year old woman T-boned me. There was one available in the country for sale to replace it that was a diesel, 4wd, Lariat, manual trans. They were asking 3 times what insurance valued my truck at. Insurance co. sent me a bunch of Lariat automatics to justify their valuation.
I had the same experience when my 91 BRG Miata got totalled years ago. Luckily, they were great to deal with after I pointed out that it was a limited edition car that only a few of were for sale at any given time in the country and basically said the same thing, "find me another one of these and I'll buy it on the spot. Better yet, you buy it yet and just give it to me and we'll call it even." We came to a much closer to reality number, but I did have to do the legwork myself to find comps.
theruleslawyer said:My experience with CCC is they will find the cheapest couple cars with the same model name within several hundred miles. Then they ignore trim, correcting for it in their favor. They then ignore condition, assuming that the cheapest listed car is in excellent + shape. Then they assume you're an expert negotiator and can knock a bunch off internet prices. Of course your car that has been sitting in the wreckers year is deducted condition for not being freshly detailed and sale ready. CCC is probably about as close to a fraudulent tool as their lawyers can make it.
Truth of the matter is that this is all inaccurate. They in fact DO take consideration for trim level, mileage, condition, etc... Negotiation skills are irrelevant, as mentioned above you aren't paid retail value.
Here's where things go astray and better education and understanding is needed. It's only as good as the information provided to it. If you put garbage in, you get garbage out. Adjusters don't always get the proper information to CCC, and that throws everything off. That shouldn't happen, but it does. Make sure you read the report, the proper trim is listed, proper options, etc. the report lays out in black and white the compensation's it makes up and down on the value. It also is not perfect, it's meant to be a guideline. I always told my staff to use the CCC report as a ballpark. CCC is not intended to be the "be all and end all", just a helpful tool.
A lawyer calling something fraudulent gave me a nice chuckle. Thank you.
I know when insurance paid for my wife's 6 year old F150XLT, her dad had bought with ever option you can add to an XLT (including eco boost TT V6) fancy wheels, and brand new Michelin LT E tires (about 300 miles on them) we got paid for an XLT base model... at least that's what the comps I had the adjuster send me showed. He told the they cold only consider it a XLT, and the rest didn't matter. (Liar) and that a V6 ( base) did not pay out any different than a V6TT model(another lie)
im sure not all adjusters are lying scum, trying to take advantage of folks. But all the ones I've had the pleasure of doing business with , have been.
I think I might be the only person who feels that insurance consistently over values their cars. In 2014 I paid 5500 for an 05 civic with 90000 miles on it. It got totaled in a hit and run by a drunk driver (everyone was fine) in 2021 with 160,000 on the clock and insurance paid $5000. Not really sure how I got 7 years of ownership and 70,000 miles for $500 plus maintenance. Anyway, I guess that is to say I have no idea how insurance companies determine value. Actuarial voodoo? The alien guy from the history channel?
RaabTheSaab said:I think I might be the only person who feels that insurance consistently over values their cars. In 2014 I paid 5500 for an 05 civic with 90000 miles on it. It got totaled in a hit and run by a drunk driver (everyone was fine) in 2021 with 160,000 on the clock and insurance paid $5000. Not really sure how I got 7 years of ownership and 70,000 miles for $500 plus maintenance. Anyway, I guess that is to say I have no idea how insurance companies determine value. Actuarial voodoo? The alien guy from the history channel?
The real question is "was it the same as essentially every other 7 year old civic with 160k?" If so, their comp tables are probably accurate. I mean, I'd expect to pay about around that much for a 7 year old civic with that mileage, so that sounds approximately right to me.
The other examples in this thread (mine included!) are for special/limited/optioned models. You can't expect the insurance guys to necessarily recognize that right off the bat, and I don't think it's malicious. They have 40 other claims to process that day.
I think that 99% of the 1991 Miatas sold the same year as mine were "regular" models and they offered a "regular" payout. That didn't cut it for a 91 BRG (yes, I can hear Keith laughing at me :)), so I had to alert them to the discrepancy. Once I did, they were fine to deal with in my case.
Like everything in life, the closer you get to the mean, the less resistance there is. Most people will choose their car by whatever is in stock, and that's going to be the average version.
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:theruleslawyer said:My experience with CCC is they will find the cheapest couple cars with the same model name within several hundred miles. Then they ignore trim, correcting for it in their favor. They then ignore condition, assuming that the cheapest listed car is in excellent + shape. Then they assume you're an expert negotiator and can knock a bunch off internet prices. Of course your car that has been sitting in the wreckers year is deducted condition for not being freshly detailed and sale ready. CCC is probably about as close to a fraudulent tool as their lawyers can make it.
Truth of the matter is that this is all inaccurate. They in fact DO take consideration for trim level, mileage, condition, etc... Negotiation skills are irrelevant, as mentioned above you aren't paid retail value.
Here's where things go astray and better education and understanding is needed. It's only as good as the information provided to it. If you put garbage in, you get garbage out. Adjusters don't always get the proper information to CCC, and that throws everything off. That shouldn't happen, but it does. Make sure you read the report, the proper trim is listed, proper options, etc. the report lays out in black and white the compensation's it makes up and down on the value. It also is not perfect, it's meant to be a guideline. I always told my staff to use the CCC report as a ballpark. CCC is not intended to be the "be all and end all", just a helpful tool.
A lawyer calling something fraudulent gave me a nice chuckle. Thank you.
Yet every 'mistake' is in their favor. And when pressed about it they refused to do anything about it. As several people above I had a 6mt car that the only examples were 5-6k more than automatics. They only used automatics as comps and had the gall to DEDUCT value from the automatic for it being at manual. Yup they can compensate for options and trim, but they do in a way that in no way reflects the value of the market. I'm sure they're using the lowest listed prices and applying a modification for trims, despite there being actual correct trim/options to use. A realistic assessment of the market would first use the closest comps and adjust for as few differences as possible. For example if you had a 10k mile e46 m3, which would be a collector car is makes sense to look first at other low mileage cars, not look the the cheapest rattiest e46 on the market and apply a correction for mileage. CCC is obvisously dong the later.
I should have known what this would devolve into.
Thanks the few of you for turning yet another thread into an all insurance companies are berkeley nuggets.
In reply to theruleslawyer :
Not every mistake is in the insurance company favor. I've overpaid on many, many cars.
I'll be the first to agree that CCC absolutely sucks at uncommon cars. The system is built on data, and when it has little to no data to draw from, you get crappy results. I've been using it since 1997 and more often than not results for a unicorn were wrong. In that case, I suggest letting the carrier know that your car is relatively unique with low production numbers. Then start pulling true comps if you can find them. CCC is pretty darn good at a Honda Accord but not so much for a 6spd Buick Century turbo (tongue in cheek). It's not done with intent to pay less, just simple lack of data.
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:In reply to theruleslawyer :
Not every mistake is in the insurance company favor. I've overpaid on many, many cars.
I'll be the first to agree that CCC absolutely sucks at uncommon cars. The system is built on data, and when it has little to no data to draw from, you get crappy results. I've been using it since 1997 and more often than not results for a unicorn were wrong. In that case, I suggest letting the carrier know that your car is relatively unique with low production numbers. Then start pulling true comps if you can find them. CCC is pretty darn good at a Honda Accord but not so much for a 6spd Buick Century turbo (tongue in cheek). It's not done with intent to pay less, just simple lack of data.
While I believe that what you said above is 100% accurate, in both of my examples of totalled unicorns, two different insurance companies essentially told me "too bad, so sad. Take it or leave it." In both cases after one very slightly raised offer from original, that was still well short of anything in real life that I could buy as a 1:1 replacement, I was told that was that.
So, the end user definitely feels like it's tilted against him. At least this guy did.
I had a boat claim where I felt I was treated very fairly, didn't really mess with my premiums moving forward, etc. I'm not anti-insurer, I just keep buying cars that are at the margins and then being disappointed when they're valued at the median.
If you have a rare vehicle, buy a stated value policy or specialty insurance.
But most don't even read their policies.
In reply to Spearfishin :
In that case, be sure to read your policy. Almost all policies have an "appraisal clause". That clause basically prevents an insurance company from saying too bad, so sad. It very specifically spells out how disagreements in value are settled, and it is very heavily slanted towards the consumer. There's also the Department of Insurance. If you file a complaint there, the carrier damn well better have VERY strong evidence that they are right.
There are safeguards in the policy and regulations to protect the consumer. Sadly, as said above, few people read the policy they buy.
Like Klay said, the system is based on data. If you have a weirdo car, it's very hard to value it through normal CCC data streams.
I've got one right now that is a 1990s Silverado. It was a WT, V6 when it began life. It's now got an LS swap with Holley EFI. And it's only got 73,000 miles on it. How do you value that? CCC will only value it with a 'new engine' but can't change it from a six to a V8. I chose to just ignore the valuation and follow my gut that it's probably worth twice what they said it was. But, and here's the key point, I'm a car guy. 90% of the people doing my job are not. They don't browse FB Marketplace every Friday like I do just looking at stuff, so they have no idea what a weirdo vehicle may actually be worth.
Owners of weird cars MUST take it upon themselves to properly insure them. The Silverado guy is running it on plain old insurance, with no additional endorsements for the $10,000+ he's spent on the truck. I've educated him for the next time, but most adjusters/companies would have just said, "It's worth XXX according to CCC. Prove them wrong." And how can you? It's a unicorn. I doubt another one exists out there just like it.
In reply to ddavidv :
I would not have considered a 5 year old 2011 F150 XLT EcoBoost 4wd with a lot of options, and only 57K miles, to be all that odd of a car. Yet I had the choice of accepting their standard v6, or 2wd or higher mileage F150 comps, and getting money to replace it (it was paid for, and DID NOT replace it with a loan) with less, or attempt to involve red tape and lawyers.
That is the same as them saying "to bad, so sad"
I can provide more info, and other times, but some people already understand, and some still wouldn't.
It really doesn't matter if it was intentional, or from bad data. They made their offer, when I gave them better data, they started telling ever lie they could, and told me to take it, or suck eggs.
I'm sorry you had an an inept adjuster and/or insurer to deal with. Your experience is not the norm, however. I total half a dozen cars a week, 52 weeks a year. I may have 2-3 oddballs during a calendar period. Most of those get settled just fine.
I'm sorry you have not read my posts. Apparently.
In reply to ddavidv :
I'm sure it got lost with all the other BS.
You mentioned it's typical to throw out comps beyond 100 miles, so far I'm not finding any comps within 100 miles. Does the range expand? etc.
If I bump it out to 200 miles, there are still only 4, but all have at least 30k more miles.
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