Dumb safety devices

FWIW I wish my '88 Accord had had a drivers side airbag when I had my "big one"... OP ran a red light (not intentionally, just zoned out) and I t-boned her... broke both wrists... airbag deployment might have knocked my hands off the steering wheel before the wrist bones gave up the fight... the burns and abrasions I could have lived with much more easily the the casts...

As one who speaks with the motoring public every day, I can tell you with 100% certanity that there are LOTS of people out there who really consider the airbags etc to mean they do not have to do the hard work of driving. There are lots of soccer moms who want an enormous Yukon 'so her kids will be safe' but do not consider the consequences of their crappy driving. Many's the time I have been doing 80 on the Interstate and get passed by one of these thyroidial monsters full of kids which is going at least 90-95 piloted by some chick who's yapping on a cell phone. When she wads that thing up against a tree, if she survives she'll sue GM for 'not making her car safe enough'.

[broken record] Safety systems as currently practiced are more sales aids than true safety equipment. Airbags are useful in limited circumstances but otherwise are just along for the ride. They were mandated by the safety Nazis because they wanted 'passive' restraint systems (meaning they require no input on the part of the driver; sound familiar?) and have now become a selling point. [/broken record]

What possible good is an airbag which deploys in the first strike then immediately becomes an empty sack just hanging there as you hurtle toward hit no. 2? What good is a drop down side curtain airbag if the roof of the vehicle collapses in a rollover? Inflateable seat belts? Please. All those would do is, as noted earlier, cut down on abrasions and perhaps a cracked rib or two. Oh, and maybe add a sale or two to the truly gullible among us.

WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP GOVERNMENTAL INTERFERENCE IN PRIVATE LIFE ALERT

I think the answer is to issue speed restriction devices. Have minimal driver training? Your car is restricted to 50 MPH. As you successfully complete higher levels of driver training, your speed limiter is raised accordingly.

END ALERT

Jensenman wrote: I think the answer is to issue speed restriction devices. Have minimal driver training? Your car is restricted to 50 MPH. As you successfully complete higher levels of driver training, your speed limiter is raised accordingly.

the only problem I see there is if that camel ever gets it's nose under the tent you'll never see the speed limiter raised for anyone... once they can restrict the speed that'll be it.....

Jensenman wrote: I think the answer is to issue giant spikes protruding from the steering column. Have minimal driver training? Your car gets no seat belts. As you successfully complete higher levels of driver training, your seat belts will be returned, and, if you're really good, we might even see about removing the spike.

Fixed that for you.

DrBoost wrote: Seatbelt airbag: Doubles its width in a fraction of a second to spread out forces from the seatbelt. Outcome : Burns on the torso.

Seatbelts leave burns on the torso anyway. At least, I had a nice stripe across my shoulder from an off-angle frontal.

Seatbelts stretch a LOT, this stretching makes enough heat that it actually fuses the fibers together. That, combined with the bruising from using a belt to stop your body, leaves some nasty marks.

Knurled wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Seatbelt airbag: Doubles its width in a fraction of a second to spread out forces from the seatbelt. Outcome : Burns on the torso.

Seatbelts leave burns on the torso anyway. At least, I had a nice stripe across my shoulder from an off-angle frontal. Seatbelts stretch a LOT, this stretching makes enough heat that it actually fuses the fibers together. That, combined with the bruising from using a belt to stop your body, leaves some nasty marks.

I love it when people complain about safety devices that could cause them to be injured, instead of merely killed.

if he's like me he wasn't complaining so much as making an observation , I had those same burns and even a cracked sternum from my 3 point BUT I didn't eat the steering wheel or the windshield

Seat belts are DESIGNED to stretch. The 'herringbone' weave allows the belt to get narrower and longer as the fibers straighten out. That slows you down rather than bringing you to a sudden halt, sort of like the difference between hitting a mattress and hitting a concrete block wall. If you were restrained by something rigid, your innards would be toast pretty quickly. The 'pre tensioner' retractors add another dimension; they snatch the seat belt tight against you in a crash and at that point the stretch takes over.

That engineered in stretch is why SFI race belts are supposed to be replaced every few years. In crashes at the much higher speeds encountered in racing, aged belts do not stretch the way new ones do and thus are more likely to fail in the wrong way: they don't absorb the inertia of the driver's body.

Air bags do the same thing; they inflate rapidly (if you have never heard one it sounds almost exactly like a 12 gauge shotgun), catch you as you go forward then deflate at a predetermined rate so that as you go forward you are slowed rather than stopped immediately. The difference: the air bag is good for one hit only and then it just hangs there. A seat belt will restrain you through multiple impacts. Yes, they will probably leave some stripes but those suckers heal quick.

3 point belts will never be as good as a decent harness IMHO but they beat airbags all to hell. Like this: you hit a car coming the other way and the airbag deploys. So far so good. Let's say you were both running 50 MPH, combined speed 100 MPH. The hit was off center so your car is still traveling at a pretty good rate, say 35 MPH (remember, Dale Earnhardt's fatal crash was at pretty low speeds) and then you whack a phone pole dead center. Where's that airbag now? Oh yeah, dangling out of the dash/steering wheel like a used condom. Lot of good THAT does.

In hit #2, you are completely in the hands of the seat belt so the seat belt is what really saves your bacon, along with whatever structural integrity your car has. If either of the hits allows the other car or the pole to intrude into the passenger compartment, cancel Christmas.

Since I'm smart like all the other anti-safety folks in this thread, I've disabled my airbags and removed the seat belts from my car. I'll be damned if I'm gonna have a bruise on my chest and risk burns on my arms from an accident. Without the airbags and belts in the way I'll simply be thrown clear of the carnage, free from bumps, bruises, and burns inflicted from so-called "safety" devices.

Jensenman wrote: I think the answer is to issue speed restriction devices. Have minimal driver training? Your car is restricted to 50 MPH. As you successfully complete higher levels of driver training, your speed limiter is raised accordingly.

That is actually one of the best ideas I have ever heard, I'm a little surprised I've never heard it before. If you get into a crash involving excessive speed, should you also be subject to having your speed reduced until you complete a mandated safety program? Of course, I also can imagine the backlash by those opposed to government having that kind of power over you and your car to be epic if that was ever proposed.

Also, I think 'seatbelt airbags' are a great idea. Many car accidents result in internal injuries when the thin belt digs violently into your body. Increasing the surface area spreads that force out. That stretch jensen was talking about could still be engineered in, and small devices like that could probably be done with a lot less added mass and complexity than adding full size airbags anywhere else.

Lots of people thought seatbelts were a horrible idea when they were first introduced.

I'm just going to trust that any kinks in the design of these safety devices will be engineered out by the time they work their way into cars I can actually afford, and move on with my life.

What happened to the car that just fills itself with expanding foam in an acident?

They had one in "Demolition Man".

I like safety stuff as much as the next guy but after seeing how well a perimiter-framed '78 Pontiac took getting T-boned by a civic, I'll keep my body-on-frame cars thanks.

New cars are definately safer but I don't trust airbags one bit. ABS still freaks me right out when it comes on.

Shawn

3Door4G wrote: Lots of people thought seatbelts were a horrible idea when they were first introduced.

I think it was Jay Leno who said he went with his dad to a dealership to pick out a car when he was young and, at his mother's insistence, his car asked about seatbelts. The salesman laughed at him and yelled out to everyone in the showroom "Hey this guy thinks he's in the Indy 500!" Something along those lines.

madpanda wrote: I don't know, I actually like the airbag pointed down at the road idea. If they make it strong enough maybe it can just launch your car over the car you were about to hit. Just don't get into any accidents underneath power lines.

Same here. I read that feature and thought, yeah! that deployment of the under car airbag would launch my Se7en right into the face of the phone yakking SUV driver.....Cool! That way, I'd go down, but not without taking the barsteward with me.

Trans_Maro wrote: New cars are definately safer but I don't trust airbags one bit. ABS still freaks me right out when it comes on. Shawn

My grandfather felt the same about hydraulic brakes.

Blah blah blah. You guys can deride us all for having reservations about new technology that is unproven. It's one thing when this new technology is supposed to make our driving experience "better" like BMW's iDrive (works GREAT huh?) or Fuel Injection (any of you old enough to have been so frustrated by the first systems that they were pulled in favor of carbs?). Now, it's a whole 'nother ball of wax when these new systems are supposed to save our life or at least stave of injuries. The car companies have a history of rolling out new ideas before testing them very well and I for one dont' want to be one of the first that's effected by a seat belt air bag that doesn't deploy right or an underbody airbag that pops the driveshaft from the transmission and vaults my car over. If you guys are gullible enough to think that the gubment and the auto industry are going to do everything necessary to make sure you are safe then, well, I got some swamp land in Florida to sell you. At least you'll be closer to the GRM offices.

I remember the fuel injection in my 1.8 Porsche 914.. yes, it got yanked after it popped three airboxes and replaced with some dual webbers...

I am a BIG proponate of seatbelts and proper crumple zones.. Having gotten into accident where the airbag hurt me (and my body did not touch it due to the seatbelt) I do not see the needs for bags.

I do however like the idea of the inflatable seatbemt, that is a pretty cool idea