E30 or E36

Goal is daily driver and stock class (or whatever it becomes) autocrosser. I've noticed there's not a whole lot of difference in asking prices between similar condition cars.

I've never driven either model but I imagine the E30 to be lighter and the E36 to be a much more modern driving car. With the E30 not very much removed from the driving experience of my E21 and the E36 to have a completely different feel. Sound about right?

325i E30 vs E36 which is faster on around some cones?

Your summary is pretty accurate, and an E36 will run circles around a similarly prepped E30... it puts power down much more effectively with the multilink rear suspension and has more room for moar tire. I'd say your dollar goes farther with the E36 these days, and clean ones are easier to find. I find the E30 more 'fun', and believe it has more 'character'. These things may not matter a wit to you.

Could also try the 318ti. While it has the smaller engine (we never got the 323ti) it has the more "fun" rear suspension while still allowing for wide tyre widths than the E30 could ever dream of. It is also the lightest of all the E36 chassis cars

If you want a BMW that you can pitch the rear out without really trying.. the 318ti or Z3 coupe is the way to go.

I personally prefer the E30. I feel strongly that the E30 holds up better. For the same mileage, I feel that the E30 is a stiffer chassis compared to the E36s I've driven. The E30 is a driving machine, not a quiet luxury ride. The E36 is a driving machine... that starts getting pretty limp-noodle around 100k.

For that matter, I had an E30 Cabrio that was stiffer and quieter than an E36 coupe I drove for a few months with the same miles.

The E30 is brash and noisy. The E36 is 90% as brash and noisy, but it gets floppy over the years. I would take an E30 any day.

I think the e30 is more fun.

And since I don't know if either of them is really ultra-compeititive in the lower/mid classes, I'd go for the fun.

And e30s simply look better.

I read all of the E30 praises on this site for years... so I bought one...

...my god how I dislike driving that unreliable, POS car... I don't understand what you guys see in them... I don't find them fun to drive at all.

So... drive as many examples of each as you can before making a decision.

The e36's are better overall, the e30 is more fun, and the 318ti is in the middle there......and people wonder why they are cult cars.

Ian F wrote: I read all of the E30 praises on this site for years... so I bought one... ...my god how I dislike driving that unreliable, POS car... I don't understand what you guys see in them... I don't find them fun to drive at all. So... drive as many examples of each as you can before making a decision.

I'm hardwired for RWD and that kinda brings the pool of potential cars way down.

The first time I drove a E21 the way it communicated to me just blew me away. Enough that I bought another to replace the one I sold. And I overlook the snap oversteer at the limit, and how it never starts in the morning, and how I always have to fiddle and tune and chase random problems that always pop up just when I think it's finally all fixed.

I can't imagine how the E30 could be a worse car than my E21 because by any normal standard it's not a very good car.

I feel like the E30 is about 10% better as an autocross car and the E36 is about 100% better as a street car, so I'd only pick an E30 if it were an M3, or I had to have an E30 for style purposes. Either one should not be evaluated objectively (nor driven long) without having refreshed all the rubber bits in the suspension.

Either way, I'm not sure why you'd want to limit yourself to stock class. Neither would be competitve in stock, and either would be a lot more fun and reliable with a mild ST build. You really want to able to replace the bushings with stiffer stuff.

Curtis - the E36 chassis is stiffer, but there are way more bushings that wear, and the rattly interior leave the car feeling less 'stiff' than the better built E30. From a performance standpoint, a stock E36 is more competitive than a stock E30 in auto-x.

Ian, I'm sorry you feel that way. If work was just a bit busier/more stable right now, I'd buy that care from you in a heartbeat.

I race the e30 my avatar. If I spent the rest of this text explaining all the things I had to fabricate/chop/change/etc just to keep up with similarly power-to-weighted E36 and E46 cars it would be longer than the hotlink thread.

The 36 is the better car. The 30 is just cute and charming.

In reply to nicksta43:

I didn't say the E30 was worse than the E21, although I'll admit it's been over 20 years since I drove the older car. More recently we had a '97 M3. That was a fun car and I wish it were still around. I had hoped the E30 would at least feel similar. It does not.

Definitely be weary of the idea of running a E30 in Stock (or anything less than Street Mod). I had similar thoughts after discovering how miserable it is for STX. Discussions here convinced me it would be even worse in stock form.

Like I said, many here disagree with me... greatly... so try both cars (and as many examples as you can) and decide for yourself.

They both have challenges. It's tough finding a reliable example of either car. E30's have fewer things to good wrong, but in my experience aren't easier.

I got tired of chasing issues with this e30:

Now have this e36:

The M50 makes more power than the M20. Both will have rotted suspension bushings and motor mounts. The e36 steering rack is slow and the e30 rack is even slower.

but.. if you are not keeping it stock.. the M3 or Z3 rack is faster

I've owned both a 87 325is and currently own a 97 M3. I've also spent lots of time driving an E36 325is as my father owned one.

I liked the size and packaging of the E30 better, as it's just more flingable, while still having space for 4 people and their stuff. It will have a similar feel to your E21, but be better at everything. The E36 will feel much different, but with the smooth inline 6, the family ties show through. Both cars will throw warning lights, and the E36 cars have interior issues that are fixable, but a PITA. On both cars, bushings will likely need to be replaced.

The E36 is much more refined, comfortable, and stable, but will require more care in keeping it nice. You need to stay on top of an E36 (especially the interior) or it will degrade. Keep in mind the E36 M3 is a much different animal than the E36 325is--- it may look similar, but they act much different. The 325is is more of a comfortable "sporting" car with modest power and a very smooth nature. The M3 is much more of a driver's car with a firmer ride, more direct handling and lots more power. Hold out for the M3 if possible--- prices are as low as they are going to get, and it's a much more rewarding car. They are rated at only 240hp, but are much faster than that number would lead you to believe.

Faced with similar condition cars, I'd pick an E30 325i over an E36. That is unless you can spring for an E36 M3. I'd pick an E36 M3 over any E30 (including the M3) for daily use.

If it's a track-car only, the E30 M3 shines, but they are big $$ these days, and kind of lousy on the street.

Also, both E30 and E36 cars are easy to wrench on--- well built and logically put together.

I built, and track race, an E30. I know what it was like stock vs now. I absolutely love the car now. I liked it a fair amount stock, but the suspension is too tall and soft. Stock sucks. I wouldn't race anything in stock class autocross anymore. It's just not any fun fighting the car. The E30 is super simple to work on, parts are cheap, and with just a suspension upgrade it is incredibly tossable and direct. The M20 has enough power to be entertaining while still rewarding a momentum driver. My 168,000 (now 170,000) turd has been very reliable. Other than wear items, the only things that have failed that I can recall were a wheel bearing, heater core and some electrical accessories that I yanked out and threw away to lighten the car. I'm a big fan of these cars now, but they are getting tougher to find, and nicer ones command a premium price.

The E36 I've had very little experience with. They aren't particularly faster around a race track (Spec 3 vs Spec E30 anyway). Build quality isn't as tank-like as the E30. However, the E36 M3...having spent the weekend with a HPDE student who had one, I was very impressed. Definitely worth the price premium (and they are very affordable right now).

I would not buy a 4 cylinder any-of-these. The sixes are SO much better. You'll just be sorry you didn't spend the extra.

Edit: here's a video of our most recent race. E30's take abuse well and you'll note this guy laps one Spec 3 car and is catching another by race end. NASA VIR 3/23/13

The E36 is going to be faster around the cones. And may I suggest skipping Stock class and go prep it for STX. BMWs are not much fun in stock classes (super camber limited and eat up front tires quickly) but they are a ton of fun in ST with the straight forward suspension upgrades (shocks, springs and definitely camber plates.) The money you save from not having to buy new front tires all the time will go a long way towards suspension improvements.

I love E30s, they are cute, fun and more retro cool, with better interior quality, but they are never going to compete with an E36 given the same mods/money invested. An STX E36 non-M is not all that slower than an STX M3 from what I've seen. The non-Ms are lighter and can make good power and fit the same tires more or less.

I had an E36 M3 that gave me very few issues over 5 years of ownership, it was an amazing car. I still look at E30s covetously, and if I found a well maintained one I'd have a hard time not jumping on it, but I know it's never going to be able to compete with an E36 in anything other than "it's something different" appeal.

Both! They each have so much to love(and sometimes hate) about them. I currently have an e30 pile of parts that is slowly being built into a 5.0 powered track car and an e36 328i that I bought to fix up a little bit and sell(I flip cars) and DD e34 530i. I really dont want to sell the 328i. Love that car, great for hitting the back roads and much more fun than the e36 325i's I have driven.

I have had several e30's and there is something about them that speaks to me. But if I were going to DD the car AND track it I would have a 328is. Which will be the next addition to my stable after I sell this 328i!

the real problem with the e21, e30, e36 is people try to make these cars into something they are not. so offen the real driving experience is lost because of hacking,chopping and trying to change them. i know so many e30 owners that have never experience driving a good stock example of the car and what a shame. when this cars were built they were some of the best in their class and if people were to look at it like that maybe there would be a lot more nice examples of these cars for people like me to enjoy.

E36, you can get a better car for similar money as a E30.

CyberEric wrote: An STX E36 non-M is not all that slower than an STX M3 from what I've seen. The non-Ms are lighter and can make good power and fit the same tires more or less.

FWIW, the E36 M3 runs in STU, not STX. The E30 M3 runs in STX.

I don't quite get the interior quality comparisons. Our M3 was as nice or nicer than my E30. Granted, the car was much newer (sold almost 9 years ago) and my g/f was neurotic about keeping the car clean. My E30 interior rattles more than my Dodge truck did and has 60K fewer miles...

I think, the distinction that is missing is "better interior build quality" not better interior.

The E30's plain jane, giant jelly bean buttoned dash and vinyl over cardboard panels have held up better over time but new for new, I'll take E36 on style points and when it delaminates that is just the car telling you it wants to go racing .

The important parts are about equal between the two - nice clean tach, shifter is where it belongs, pedal placement is good, wheel is beefy and well placed, sport seats are comfy.

exactly GPS.. I ignored the falling apart interior on my Ti for years due to how well the controls were