e36 m3 vs ap1 s2k

the S2000 is supposed to get 18c/24h

that's WORLDS better than an rx-8...

on that note, I vote E36 M3 all day.

Take a look in the cars directory too, under the Honda and BMW pages. I know there's a couple of S2000 new car reviews and a project car, as well as an E36 project or two. We've written a lot on both of those.

Greg Voth wrote: Fueleconomy.gov rates a 98 M3 at 20 combined and a 2005 RX-8 at 18 combined. A 2003 S2000 is rated at 20 combined for comparison.

The catch is the M3 and S2K will easily meet, if not exceed those ratings. The RX8 can too given perfect conditions like you mentioned.

The difference is the average tank on an RX8 will be far, far lower. I've spent quite a bit of time in my brother's RX8 and he'll get 17 on a good tank but averages close to 14-15.

When I visited him in July we were filling it up almost every day. He said he averages about 170-180 miles to a tank. He considered anything over 200 to be great.

Yeah Greg, don't believe everything the gobment tells you. I've recorded as high as 29mpg in my 97 M3 from Jax to Daytona on A1A, but that was driving about as conservatively as I could. I usually drive with a very heavy right foot, and I've never been able to get lower than 23mpg.

I'm not sure why the ratings are so low, but it's B.S. Everyone I've spoken with that has an E36 M3 gets good mileage, usually better than I do. (due to the heavy right foot)

That said, the Cooper S is a great choice, but quite a bit more expensive than the other cars listed.

no more rx8 talk! they are ugly and I don't want one

how about 350z? they are getting cheaper too!

smog7 wrote: no more rx8 talk! they are ugly and I don't want one

LOLZ. fine; just trying to be helpful. i forgot that nothing starts a GRM crapstorm like the mention of an RX-8.

(FWIW, i'm getting 16 in mostly city driving and it's worth every drop.)

I know we're not supposed to talk about RX8s, but I feel compelled to add my $0.02 to the fuel economy debate.

Mine gets 19 mpg for mostly city driving, 20-21 mpg in a 50-50 mix and 22 or so in mostly highway. I've never done a full tank road trip, so I can't comment on true highway mileage. My observation has been that people who get less than that tend to shift too high. While it's easy and enjoyable to rev a rotary like that, it's not the way to fuel economy.

My '98 M3 would get about 22 in town and about 27 on the highway. I got 28.5 once on a road trip driving like a grandma. It's tough to beat a BMW for the ratio of performance to economy.

In reply to billy3esq:

"It's tough to beat a BMW for the ratio of performance to economy. "

A friend of mine has an unmolested 99 civic si that gets 24 city 28-30 highway for instance....

I would go with the M3. I plan to in fact.

Fine get the M3. THIS M3....

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1171548-il-sale-1995-bmw-m3-402-ci-ls2-6-speed-conversion.html

so how does insurance for the two compare?

this will be a daily driver/ weekend fun car

aftermarket parts?

prices for oem replacement parts?

The insurance for my '99 M3 is roughly 50% more than what it costs for my '01 530i and double what it costs for my '99 Miata. The S2000 is fairly high as well, from what I remember. Still cheaper than a 911 though!

I own a 98 M3 sedan,only mods are a chip,euro cold air & x-brace. I love the car. I get around 23-24 mpg day in & day out. I've tracked it some & it's all I need there. I like it so much that I occasionally think I should get another & still keep the one I have. The headliner has indeed begun falling down recently,that's on my short (1 item) list of things that need attention. I've drive a S2000 & found it really enjoyable. I think for daily,on the street use, the M3 is the better choice.

I'm an S2000 guy for sure. '02 daily driver, '08 CR track car (street legal) and AP1 race car with AP2 engine and trans. My brother races an E36 and has a daily driver E36 M3. This discussion sounds familiar and I don't think you can expect a consensus on which to get... ever. Why do you love one woman and not another? Spend enough time with one and you will just know.

Real world mpg is 27 highway and 10 on track for AP1.

ok guys I am getting more serious about the whole ap1 vs m3 thing.. can anyone recommend a good site/forum for each?

Have you had a chance yet to drive an example of both cars in anger?

E36 M3 forum: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=63

I had a 97 Estoril Blue M3 for a little over a year. The car had a hard life with 9 previous owners , but still managed to Dyno 219 RWHP. I loved the car, it has a feeling that can't be matched by any honda.. With the dinan exhuast the sound was nothing short of intoxicating. A tthe same time I had a Mini , fun car in it's own right , but doesn't have the pannache.

Yes I have driven S2K's , nice cars... probably faster on a track , but just not the same. That being said the S2K is on my personal automotive bucket list.

RX8?? Huh? 15 mpg , looks like a 7 yr olds spaceship drawing ... errr no thanks... Yes I have driven them...

smog7 wrote: ok guys I am getting more serious about the whole ap1 vs m3 thing.. can anyone recommend a good site/forum for each?

S2000 site: http://www.s2ki.com/home/

I went to a BMW CCA autocross event back a couple of months ago, there were probably 15 to 20 E36 m3s entered and 2 S2ks entered. Top two at the end of the day - S2ks... I mean i love E36 M3s all day long, but after what i saw, S2ks were the way to go...

My '98 (3.2) E36M3 'vert was one of the best all-around cars I've ever driven. While it was too heavy and loose to compare to either the M3 hardtop or S2k, it was just about the perfect street car (and I regret selling it).

But even with the extra weight and that canvas top flpping in the breeze, my wife ould routinely return 29mpg on the highway with it... while I tended to average a couple mpg less... and the mileage really dropped as you increased speeds above 75....

On the "overall" mileage (mixed highway and town, but never ever "babied") I never averaged under 20mpg... usually 23-24.

Bill

DukeOfUndersteer wrote: I went to a BMW CCA autocross event back a couple of months ago, there were probably 15 to 20 E36 m3s entered and 2 S2ks entered. Top two at the end of the day - S2ks... I mean i love E36 M3s all day long, but after what i saw, S2ks were the way to go...

S2000's are an awesome autocross platform, but the peaky engine and comparative lack of utility make for less compelling than the M3 for daily driver duties.

nderwater wrote:

DukeOfUndersteer wrote: I went to a BMW CCA autocross event back a couple of months ago, there were probably 15 to 20 E36 m3s entered and 2 S2ks entered. Top two at the end of the day - S2ks... I mean i love E36 M3s all day long, but after what i saw, S2ks were the way to go...

S2000's are an awesome autocross platform, but the peaky engine and comparative lack of utility make for less compelling than the M3 for daily driver duties.

i would have to agree.

smog7 wrote: I am looking for reccomendations from people who have owned one or both of these cars.. I like the idea of a simple, semi light weight two door front engine rear wheel drive set up.(na miata is just too old and small for me) the price range for both are right about the same range. I would be looking for the newest m3 I could afford, or an 03 ap1 I like the idea of having more space in the m3, but 9k rpms sounds too good to pass up. what do you guys think? are e36 m3's as reliable as s2k's? how do they compare performance wise? daily driving? are parts more expensive for the m3?

SO, WHAT'S THE VERDICT?

z31maniac wrote: Is it true the early S2Ks have weak tranny synchros? Any other issues? I may have to add one of these to the short list for next year....

I've got an 03. Awesome car. It's fine as a daily driver as long as you don't mind a stiff ride.

As far as the synchro's go, well...I hate to admit it, but yes, they are not the strongest. However, only in two respects. You will have no problems with the synchro's as long as you don't slam the 1-2 upshift and as long as you don't skip shift.

My father in law just bought an '03. It was an awesome find, and I can't wait to drive it.