No, not the 4 letter word. School me on the group's consensus on what to look out for (besides falling off door panels and the like). And what about the difference between 3.0s and 3.2s? I'm considering getting one as a back up DD for the 996.
No, not the 4 letter word. School me on the group's consensus on what to look out for (besides falling off door panels and the like). And what about the difference between 3.0s and 3.2s? I'm considering getting one as a back up DD for the 996.
Love mine, I have a 95 with the 3.0. The 3.0 and the 3.2 are rated with the same hp and the 3.2 has slightly more torque. I would worry more about finding the cleanest car for the money and not get too caught up with what the displacement is. The 95 does have a different steering ratio as well.
Problem areas: Leaking power steering rack, Cooling system, If it has electric seats the gears like to strip, Bushings, Sloppy shifter, Sagging headliner and glove box, Misc trim
All of those are pretty easy with the exception being the bushings. I know there are other little problems but that's off the top of my head and I'm sure others will chime in.
Only the 95 model came with the S50B30 (3.0L), while all others came with the S52B32 (3.2L). Both motors came from the factory rated at 240hp, but the 3.2 is torquier per the books.
Things to look out for, at least in my opinion-
windshield/window seals are made of junk plastic/rubber and will need replacing most likely. They will leak eventually, so look for water damage underneath.
Check the rear subframe, rear trailing arm bushing pockets and all shock towers for cracking/twisting/warping and/or worn bushings. If the bushings are OEM and not replaced, anticipate a VERY hefty sum of money for a shop to replace them, or a full weekend of home-wrenching and some specialty tools/fire/BFH'ing to do them yourself. The rear subframe bushings/RTABs to this day are the worst automotive job I have ever done in any car. There's a reason why subrame reinforcement kits are made- The chassis is weak and prone to pulling/cracking in these areas in hard driving.
Rocker rust behind the side skirts. Also wheel arches are typically prone.
grabby steering, i.e. there's a unique and identifiable 'catch' at a specific point of steering wheel rotation. This is simply caused by a lack of lube at the upper steering joint, and an easy fix. Just more of an FYI that it's usually not a big problem. Power steering racks are prone to leakage as well though, so best to try and find a dry one.
Electrical gremlins- It's a 90's BMW. Be prepared for them. Low coolant level sensors, IAT hose-related CEL's, window switches inoperable, etc... There are 4 different electronic modules in the car that all have to communicate with each other, and sometimes they don't get along. If you're looking for electronically perfect, chances are you probably will not find one in an E36, haha.
Other than that, they're pretty robust vehicles. Mine has over 230k HARD miles on it, and has never seen anything other than a head refresh.
Good luck.
Thanks guys! What price range is reasonable. FWIW, I'm in the mid-atlantic region.
I'd spend a premium and get a really nice one. The budget route -- Get a later E36 328i. BMW Bros on the Chumpcar forum suggest that with the right cheaty parts binning, you can make just about as much power out of the M52B28 as the S52, and blow it up less.
Check out this thread.
markwemple wrote: Thanks guys! What price range is reasonable. FWIW, I'm in the mid-atlantic region.
I bought a E46 330i ZHP just because I couldn't find a nice enough M3/4/5. I'd say a top shelf E36 M3 is about the same price as an entry level E46 M3: About $11k. Mid market is ~$8500, and anything south of that will need some work.
I've got one up for sale! All maintenance is up to date and its been garaged its whole life! interior is in great shape too! Its a wonderful car, I just don't use it much. I'm willing to deal.
I've seen some decent models for 6-8, nice ones for 7-9, and pristine for 8-15k. It really does depend on what you're looking for, but if you're looking for a reliable daily, I'd set your budget and buy the car that comes with the most documented maintenance history and has all of the above aforementioned trouble spots OK'ed.
Sounds like the e36 and e46 have essentially the same problem areas, cooling and rear subframe. Does it also have the weak, or problematic, front suspension as well?
e46 has rod bearings and valve adjustment issues that the e36 does not suffer from. I'm not familiar with any e36 front suspension problem areas.
How many miles are too many? I've seen some advertised with numbers approaching 300k.
I've seen several in the 300k realm also. I think the mileage cutoff depends greatly on maintenance and service history. When properly maintained, they'll go a long time. I've seen several high mileage track cars also.
I'm on my 2nd one. They're great cars, I haven't had many of the issues that are commonly talked about.
Cooling systems need to be refreshed every 60k miles. Stay on top of the bushings.
These cars are getting old, expect to pay a premium for a well cared for car, but its worth paying the money...
I have a 97 and love it. It's been in the family since nearly new, and now has 170K on it. The E36 M3 had their subframe mounting points re-inforced from the factory, so damage is very rare. Its' worth checking, but it's way more prevalent on the interwebs than it is in real life. The E46 cars were more prone to this IIRC.
Cooling systems need replacement every 100K miles or so. (or do it once with improved parts) The interior bits tend to fall apart--- but it's all repairable.
If there is a rattle coming from the rear suspension when going over rough pavement, check the rear-diff bolt. It can come loose. I actually twisted my driveshaft in half due to this bolt failing. (well and a 4,500 rpm clutch drop)
They have fantastic steering, beefy brakes and the engine feels way more powerful than 240hp would lead you to believe. Mine turned a 14 flat 1/4 mile at 100mph when totally bone stock--- so they are quicker than that modest power number would lead you to believe.
I've driven all of the M3's except the very latest M3, M4, M2 and I prefer the E36 to any of them. It's not as raw as the E30, but far more refined and faster. It's not as fast as the E46 M3, but feels more nimble and direct. It's sort of the goldilocks of cars. They do everything well.
Good examples are getting harder to find, as they are older now, and many have fallen into bad hands. I'd try to find the most stock example you can find, and modify to your taste. The BMW R&D guys did a great job balancing the ride vs. handling tradeoff with these cars, so I'd stray away from lowered, super stiff modified cars----unless this will be a track-only car. I still run the stock springs with Konis on mine, and the ride is fantastic, but it's also capable on track. If you find a modified car that suits your taste, go for it, but stock cars tend to have lived more gentle lives.
The engines are pretty bulletproof, with 300K miles common. The aftermarket is huge, and all of their maladies can be fixed. They do feel a bit dated compared to a new car, and won't have all the crazy tech that a new BMW would offer--- but they are more fun. Our M235i was faster, nicer inside, had more grip, and by every subjective measure was a better car than my E36 M3. You know what though.....my M3 was WAY more satisfying to drive. Maybe it's the steering, the communicative chassis, or the way the engine celebrates each throttle opening. In any case, I was always happy to get back into my trusty M3. I still am.
We'll be posting the update of us changing the subframe and diff bushings soon, as we just covered this in GRM. Here's more info on the saga of my car, and what has been done over the years.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1997-bmw-m3/
As others have said--- buy the very nicest one you can find. The cost difference between a creampuff and a rat isn't that large. The cost difference turning a rat into a creampuff would be much higher.
I had one (a '99) for 5 years and it was amazing. The handling, steering, and power are wonderful. Bought it in 2005 for 18k and sold it in 2012 for 12k.
Spend a little more and get one that has been well-maintained.
During my ownership from 60-100k miles it left me stranded a few times though. Once the starter went out, and when the power steering hose blew off (they are awful clamp style fittings that should be thrown in a dump), and I had to drive it home without a clutch once when the line from the master cylinder to the slave broke. It ate a few different coil packs. Mine had coilovers, front bar, and camber plates, which made a big difference, as well as 17x9s with 255 Z1 star specs. It was so much fun. RTAB limiters really reduced the slop in the rear.
Nothing else to add here that others haven't said. It was such a great driver's car. It sort of felt like a heavier Miata with more power and much better brakes and a worse gearbox.
markwemple wrote: No, not the 4 letter word. School me on the group's consensus on what to look out for (besides falling off door panels and the like). And what about the difference between 3.0s and 3.2s? I'm considering getting one as a back up DD for the 996.
3.0 are the good version, the 3.2 is the watered down version for people who hate shifting. (snarking, here)
Also 3.0 cars have square wheels while 3.2 have inch wider rear wheels. This is 100% why I am dead set on a 95MY or nothing.
Knurled, that's just silly.
The only difference between the 3.0 and 3.2 (besides the obvious displacement) is the intake manifold.
That can easily and cheaply be retrofitted to the 3.2's.
Most of these cars no longer have stock wheels, even if they do picking up a square setup is again, easy and cheap.
What I feel is the largest difference between the two that you'll experience is the manual hvac vs the electronic one.
The electronic one consistently fails but can be rebuilt for $50.
docwyte wrote: Most of these cars no longer have stock wheels, even if they do picking up a square setup is again, easy and cheap.
But if you are buying one expressly to use for a class that requires stock wheel diameter and width, it is far FAR easier to work with a square setup. Any wheel can be a front or a rear, makes logistics simpler.
Another difference: The 3.2 has 3.24 rear vs the 3.15 in the 3.0, IIRC.
Just find the best one you can.
The 3.0 is OBDI, 3.2 is OBDII. Not sure if that matters for emissions for you, but the guys who go turbo or really tweak their motors generally prefer OBDI (or the 2.8 short block for big boost).
95 or 96 I can tag historic
Not a whole lotta difference in gearing between a 3.15 and a 3.23.
I'm not familiar with SCCA auto-x rules but with NASA and BMWCCA you can run a 8.5" square setup on any of the E36 M3's without penalty.
Yes, OBD2 on the '96 up cars, which does somewhat impede a big turbo setup but there are plenty of OBD2 turbo M3's out there.
Obviously a lot easier to find a 3.2 car as they made them '96-99 vs the single year '95.
I've owned both a 95 and now my 98, can't really say I feel much of a difference between the two, maybe a little more grunt from the 98 down low. My 98 has the earlier, larger intake manifold on it, so top end is the same...
I've driven a 95 and owned a 99. I agree with with "buy the best one you can afford".
If you get a 96-99, plan to swap to a 95 intake mani + tune. All the torques and all the top end you will need. Mine had the stock mani and tailed off around 5k. Witht the 95 mani, it woke up from 4k to 7.2k, but lost some bottom end (something 15-20tqs) With the tune, it brought it back. Cooling system and suspension bushings are a must on these to keep em good.
And the subframe / diff bushing story has been posted:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1997-bmw-m3/fixing-gear-our-m3s-rear/
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