e46 M3's depreciation discussion...

sooo.. have we hit market bottom yet.. lots of tempting deals out there...

out of double digit K's

needs some maint but cheap

talk.. real talk.. I needs it.

I was discussing this with some friends in the context of ZHP cars being almost as expensive as the M cars currently.

I believe we are at a point where the nice ones are starting to go up, and the not nice or higher mileage ones will continue to fall for a bit. I blame the bearing issues for the higher mileage cars continuing to lose value.

Man, those are some good deals. I never see them that cheap here in Arizona, they're all well into the $10k+ range unless they have 200k miles or a salvage title. Though in Minnesota I'd be a little worried about rust, that could be why those cars are so cheap.

I think it's getting close, but not quite bottomed out - over 85,000 built - about 10k more than e36 m3s. Seeing more beater e46 m3s around here that will eventually be really cheap or end up junked from lack of maintenance. Used to be about a 1500 penalty for an smg (also about the price of an smg service if you don't diy). That difference seems to be disappearing. Also seeing the differences on convertibles closing - if I recall there's a fair gap in performance between the vert and coupe. Still seeing most over 10k and into the low teens as more of an average price. I suspect the average will drop a little more to the 7000-8000 range with beaters in the 3k-4k range and then values may start to climb again as the herd starts thinning out. The silver one above looks like a pretty nice deal. The blue one looks like it has a couple of sizeable dings that may be beyond paintless dent removal.

wow. didn't know they were that cheap. c5 used to be the answer for most performance/dollar, but those m3s would come really close.

head to head, stock for stock, how does an e46 m3 compare to a c5 (non-z06) in autox and track?

They have to be dang close right?

If you can live with the SMG, it seems like that knocks several thousand off the price.

In my experience, a C5 with equally-matched drivers and the same tires as an M3 will come out on top. For the E46. And for the E90/92. I'm a BMW guy, but when it comes to pure track rat, the C5 is really The Answer. Sorry, Miata, nobody can be the answer to everything.

Tom_Spangler wrote: If you can live with the SMG, it seems like that knocks several thousand off the price.

For the grmer type - you can convert an smg to manual for around $1000 (a bunch less if you scrounge). The real bargains may be smg cars - with a seized smg module.

The values of the good, well maintained, factory 6MT cars seem to be going up. When I look at what they're selling for now and what I sold my E46 M3 for 7 years ago they're not that much different.

Agree that buying a SMG car and converting it is a good way to save a bunch of money....

Agreed on the C5. I would say it is a car whose performance you won't outgrow. At the track events I run, you need a car with power and speed unless you like to do point byes all day. I've had a track prepped '95 M3 and have friends with E46 M3s. I've even got a couple of friends with S54s in their E36 M3s. I like my C5. Relatively stock (AC, cruise, stereo) it is still scary fast. I can't drive it flat out through some corners like I could with the M3.

You must address cooling, I added a DeWitts aluminum radiator and a separate oil cooler. I also upgraded the front brakes to AP Racing units. I run 10x18 square with 315 Nitto Nt 05s. Drive it to and from the track. I blew up my first motor and replaced it with a new Texas Speed longblock and dynoed at 440 rwhp. Upgraded to LS6 heads, Comp Cam and LS6 intake manifold. SLP long tube headers and X pipe. Stock C5 Z06 Titanium exhaust. Very civilized on the street.

E36 m3's look to have started to climb up for nice ones. It's getting hard to find a ratty one for cheap like you could a few years ago. We shall see.

Yeah, that $6500 M3........I'll bet you a nice steak dinner it needs VANOS, Valve adjustment, and rod bearings, cooling system, etc.

So basically more than double price of it.

And you still have a high mileage M3.

I'd rather pay $20k for a maintained one with low miles. But that's me.

z31maniac wrote: I'd rather pay $20k for a maintained one with low miles. But that's me.

whoa whoa whoa is this rennlist or bimmerforums?

pushrod36 wrote: I was discussing this with some friends in the context of ZHP cars being almost as expensive as the M cars currently. I believe we are at a point where the nice ones are starting to go up, and the not nice or higher mileage ones will continue to fall for a bit. I blame the bearing issues for the higher mileage cars continuing to lose value.

Agreed. I think you'll see a point where a nice ZHP costs more than an average M3. For all the E46 aficionados that need 4 real doors, the ZHP is as close as it gets.

The E46 M3 is a great car and a great bargain right now, but they've got a several achilles' heels in the boot.

I think nice e46 m3s already bottomed out and are going back up (slowly so far). Ratty ones will keep going down for a while.

I think one key thing about the m3 vs c5 comparison is that the c5 isn't really a 'nice' car as far as the interior. The e46 m3, especially in good shape, has a nice interior. So depending on how much you need to feel like you're in a 'nice' car for 10k, that may be huge points in favor of the m3. On the other hand, the C5 doesn't have any big 'gotcha' items. I've had the entire driveline from the engine back out of a c5 and even that wasn't particularly difficult.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

z31maniac wrote: I'd rather pay $20k for a maintained one with low miles. But that's me.

whoa whoa whoa is this rennlist or bimmerforums?

Is a $6k car that may need potentially $10k in maintenance with 160k miles REALLY that much cheaper than a $20k car with 70k miles thats been well maintained.

z31maniac wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

z31maniac wrote: I'd rather pay $20k for a maintained one with low miles. But that's me.

whoa whoa whoa is this rennlist or bimmerforums?

Is a $6k car that may need potentially $10k in maintenance with 160k miles REALLY that much cheaper than a $20k car with 70k miles thats been well maintained.

It's cheaper if you can do the work yourself. Rod bearings, vanos, clutch/SMG work is only a few grand in parts at most if you do everything at once. These cars aren't hard to work on, so if you can DIY, your cost of ownership will be a third of what a non-DIY'er will have to pay.

That's what I tell people whenever they mention buying any BMW out of warranty. Either work on the car yourself, or prepare for financial ruin.

Vigo wrote: . . . I think one key thing about the m3 vs c5 comparison is that the c5 isn't really a 'nice' car as far as the interior. The e46 m3, especially in good shape, has a nice interior. So depending on how much you need to feel like you're in a 'nice' car for 10k, that may be huge points in favor of the m3. On the other hand, the C5 doesn't have any big 'gotcha' items. I've had the entire driveline from the engine back out of a c5 and even that wasn't particularly difficult.

NO DOUBT! I personally feel the E46 M3 is the best looking chassis BMW ever came out with (in modern car terms). That C5, well . . . it's a different look and feel and it doesn't make my heart go pitter pat. That being said, I think the E36 is really, really ugly, and yet that's my current chassis of choice for dedicated motor-swap track cars. It's cheap, widely available, and well supported in the aftermarket.

I keep looking for C5 Z06 track candidates around here but they're still over $15k, which I don't have available this decade.

z31maniac wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

z31maniac wrote: I'd rather pay $20k for a maintained one with low miles. But that's me.

whoa whoa whoa is this rennlist or bimmerforums?

Is a $6k car that may need potentially $10k in maintenance with 160k miles REALLY that much cheaper than a $20k car with 70k miles thats been well maintained.

Not until the 70k mile car breaks something.