Electricity and the future of police vehicles.

I was just pondering this on my way to work today. It seems like it would be a great way for a department to save money. As we all know that police vehicles spend a lot of time idling. But, there are some downsides also.
 

Theoretically, a crook could set up some sort of low range EMP that could be used to take all pursuit vehicles out, while still keeping his rudimentary, all mechanical hot rod moving. Now, perhaps I do not understand all of how an EMP works, and if that is the case, someone please enlighten me. I'm just thinking out loud over here, daydreaming of some hot rodder robbing a bank and getting away with it because the cops all use electric cars in the future.

I think if you're smart enough to build an EMP that can disable a car you don't need to rob a bank?

Also the EMP would disable an ICE car as well?

So all in all, no?

If a crook could pull off an EMP to wipe out an area just to delay the cops, we're all doomed.

But much older technology would still likely function. Just not sure about the driver.

Edit: Dave M said it first!

Dave M said:

Also the EMP would disable an ICE car as well?

 

 

Diesel power get away car and you're fine.

Seems like a gasoline powered car could survive as well. Use and old one with mechanical fuel pump, non-electronic ignition with good old points in the distributor and of course a carb instead of fuel injection.

In reply to Dave M :

Being smart enough to make an EMP and being broke enough to think about robbing a bank are not mutually exclusive.

Electric police vehicles would be interesting though. Could you conceivably out run a pursuit vehicle based on range? How much extra batteries and weight would they need for all the radar, networking, etc that all cars have now?

I've read a few articles about EMP risks and the general comment is it's basically a great science fiction plot tool that has little basis in reality and how much it would actually affect modern electronics.  

Ian F said:

I've read a few articles about EMP risks and the general comment is it's basically a great science fiction plot tool that has little basis in reality and how much it would actually affect modern electronics.  

Yup. EMP can be best thought of as a massive burst of static electricity all at one time- all electronics are shielded against it, though the use of fuses and basic overbuilding/overrating of electronics, which we've smartly been doing for decades.

Right now, the "best" method for EMP would be a magnetron from a microwave with a much larger transformer for overvolting which would generate enough static and microwave emissions to be called an EMP- but you'd have to literally have it directly on the thing you're trying to fry and can't have any metal in the way or it'll be conducted. To do any better you gotta go nuclear where the actual fears for EMP are, but not nearly as bad as youd think.

OK, we need a 'build your own DIY MEP that could stop a Tesla' thread!  Anyone smarter than me up for it?

I mean, I'm sure there's a tutorial on YouTube.

But yeah, any EMP that would take out an electric car would also take out any ICE that was built in the last 20 years or so. Including diesels.

Electrics make a lot of sense for fleets with very well understood usage patterns. Of course, if you're the sheriff of Hazzard County and you travel 1000 miles a day, they may not work. But the forces know what their cars do, and I can see how EVs might fit in very nicely.

One of the ways to judge the wear on an ex-cop car is to look at the hour meter. These things spend a lot of time idling. That's hard on the car and hard on fuel. Right there, there's some potential for real savings.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Plumb into the tail gate, when the fuzz try to give you the pit, activate it. BUZZ! Short circuit something and that Tesla cop goes down. 
 

so maybe emp isn't the answer. instead, some kind of electrical harpoon gun with discharge. 

Get into that game, and the Tesla cop has a lot more BZZT at his disposal. Wouldn't caltrops be a lot more effective?

_ said:

I was just pondering this on my way to work today. It seems like it would be a great way for a department to save money. As we all know that police vehicles spend a lot of time idling. But, there are some downsides also.
 

Theoretically, a crook could set up some sort of low range EMP that could be used to take all pursuit vehicles out, while still keeping his rudimentary, all mechanical hot rod moving. Now, perhaps I do not understand all of how an EMP works, and if that is the case, someone please enlighten me. I'm just thinking out loud over here, daydreaming of some hot rodder robbing a bank and getting away with it because the cops all use electric cars in the future.

People have done that to destroy radar guns, in the past.  I deliberately have forgotten the details, or where I even read about it online, but it involved a spark plug and a giant capacitor bank.  

Bear in mind, this was done from a moving vehicle, and it didn't disable it or other vehicles in the area.  But it also did (apparently) sound like someone had fired a shotgun.

You don't need EMP,  just an internet connection to hack into a Tesla..a cop car might be a little more protected, but then maybe not.

I don't think fuel consumption is a big issue, otherwise they would not just idle.  Running out of 'fuel' would be a big issue.

I think the highway patrol might be a good choice for an EV when they have fast charge stations along their routes.

Funny to see this, I just saw a story on Motorweek about the state park police using electric cars and Zero electric bikes. 

Motorweek

nimblemotorsports said:

You don't need EMP,  just an internet connection to hack into a Tesla..a cop car might be a little more protected, but then maybe not.

I don't think fuel consumption is a big issue, otherwise they would not just idle.  Running out of 'fuel' would be a big issue.

I think the highway patrol might be a good choice for an EV when they have fast charge stations along their routes.

Please show your work on the hacking :) I know it's been possible to take over a Jeep Cherokee OTA, but not a Tesla. Turns out that the choice of propulsion is not the primary factor here.

I suspect the reasons police keep the car idling is 1) instant availability and 2) HVAC. It does cause wear on the vehicles. Both of those can be handled by an EV at rest. Teslas have "dog mode", maybe they offer "cop mode" :)

Of course running out of "fuel" would be an issue. But the usage patterns of these fleets are extremely well understood, they don't decide to take an inter-city trip on the weekend because it's fun and spontaneous. I'll bet any police force in the country could tell you the average distance traveled by one of their vehicles per day along with standard deviations, the maintenance and consumable cost and the lifetime cost.

Mileage is (typically) recorded with every shift; majority of the day/night is spent idling.

An EV fleet, or even just a few cars, would be much cheaper to run than ICE in cities that have multiple precincts, like NYC.

_ said:

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Plumb into the tail gate, when the fuzz try to give you the pit, activate it. BUZZ! Short circuit something and that Tesla cop goes down. 
 

so maybe emp isn't the answer. instead, some kind of electrical harpoon gun with discharge. 

Any of your fantasy weapons would disable a car with computers in it just as effectively. Meaning, everything made since the 70s except maybe the 12v Cummins powered Dodge trucks. But even those have computer controlled transmissions after the early 90s so those would also go offline.

People running from the police are not geniuses. At that point the "heist" has already gone completely wrong, is clearly an amateur effort, and the perps will be caught. The ones that get away with it are the ones the are in out and gone before the victims even know about it. Life is not a Guy Richie film.

In reply to dculberson :

Yes, crooks generally aren't smart. However, the cartel have an Internet history for you to read. Syndicates have masterminds, and it's only time before they would figure out a way out of police pursuits. Look what happened in Mexico recently. Those special forces were pinned down and lost the gun fight. 

Wait, I thought we already knew what the future of police cars will be.  What is this crap?  
 

_ said:

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Plumb into the tail gate, when the fuzz try to give you the pit, activate it. BUZZ! Short circuit something and that Tesla cop goes down. 
 

so maybe emp isn't the answer. instead, some kind of electrical harpoon gun with discharge. 

So... 2 Fast 2 Furious plot line?

_ said:

In reply to dculberson :

Yes, crooks generally aren't smart. However, the cartel have an Internet history for you to read. Syndicates have masterminds, and it's only time before they would figure out a way out of police pursuits. Look what happened in Mexico recently. Those special forces were pinned down and lost the gun fight. 

Which did not involve them running from the police, or fighting an effective police force.

Well we've deviated here. Supposed to be a fun discussion on the "what if's", but I smell reprisal on further commentary. 

Sorry, I didn't mean to shout you down! I just didn't think it was a situation that was likely.

How about this: instead of disabling the police cars, confuse the safety nannies into thinking there are pedestrians in the area, so they'll slam on the brakes. Any other fun ways you can think of fooling them into acting in undesirable ways??

I wonder if a blow up doll in the middle of the road would make the car stop. Obviously not if it's an Uber, they'll just mow it down.