jh36
HalfDork
10/21/21 8:12 p.m.
In reply to JG Pasterjak :
"Jack can probably provide more details, but from th epic he sent it looked like there was a block, heads, timing setup, fuel injection, oiling system, but I didn't see any bottom end aside from bearing caps."
You will need a crank. I can't recall if the rods and bearings are in the boxes. But it's a fresh block in a box and unused ASA heads with the bar codes still on them. I have never built one of these up, so I might be missing something obvious...but yeah...it's a lot of stuff. The best part though is the chassis was never run...it spent its life up to now as a spare.
1. YES do it
2. forget the Somerset go with a Mercury Cougar 
This is what we started with. This was back on the early 2000's.
Since this is also about accessibility, I'm kind of confused about the LS contempt. There is a reason it's the spec engine for the class the chassis comes from.
Im not against changing, but would only do so if there was another class to race in.
In reply to alfadriver :
Because most of the chassis for sale are long divorced from the sealed spec powerplant. Even this one only comes with 2/5ths of a motor. Part of the romance of a tube car is that you can run whatever powerplant warms your heart.
I would read every word of it. Do it
tuna55
MegaDork
10/22/21 10:09 a.m.
Another thought: A chassis like that could lead itself to some interesting back/back/back comparisons.
Does a lightweight four cylinder really give up that much to a heavier V8 on a roadcourse? Autocross?
Does switching from an aerodynamic body to something else really change lap times?
How much does weight distribution change handling and lap times?
How many laps of an enduro can we complete with a truck 5.3 and all of the turbo?
How do these engine setups change vertical center of gravity? Does it end up mattering?
Tom1200
UltraDork
10/22/21 10:12 a.m.
In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
Since I'm one of the guys chiming in on doing this for low bucks I suspect what's best will come down to what you know.
For the crew at GRM it's gonna be an LS
For Frenchyd clearly it's a V12 as he has that stuff lying around
For me it would likely be a Ford small block or Ford straight six from Oz because that's what my fabricator pal would like to play with. He charges me way less if he likes the project.
With that said at the end of the day as a driver I pretty much forget what's under the hood if the car goes fast.
alfadriver said:
I'm interested, but 3600 lb?? Is that real? Seems high for a tube framed car like that.
There will be a lot of variables for weight. An ASA style late model without lead will probably come in at around 2500 lbs. A NASCAR Busch or Cup car will have a lot more and heavier tubing due to rule requirements and will normally come in at around 3000-3200 lbs with speedway cars being the heaviest because ballast isn't as critical but surviving a serious hit is.
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
In JG's post he says the 3600# was a typo, it's really 2600#.
While I'm all for this type of build and followed jh36's thread I have to wonder if this is kinda like a free old boat.
While GRM is likely to get products at substantial discounts or free would the typical reader find a project using a similar chassis they're paying full parts prices for worthwhile vs buying a car that's ready to take to the track? Has any comparison shopping been done? Is there an abundance of this type of chassis available?
Would/will the same deal on the spare car and parts be offered to someone else if GRM doesn't buy it or is there some special discount involved making easier for the magazine financially?
I'd imagine with the new cup cars coming for next season there will be quite a few of the current cars coming up for sale soon. Would one of those be more relevant?
In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
While I see your point, where this can race does matter. Tim had an article about this kind of car a few years ago, so this becomes how to do one on your own. If there's a list of power trains, cool. But Im not a fan of single use cars- so track + something else ( auto cross, wheel to wheel, etc). So if the LS is the only allowed engine, so bet it.
In reply to alfadriver :
LS was the only allowed engine in ASA, which no longer exists, which is why these are so cheap.
If the body and engine makes match it can run CP in AX and AIX in NASA. SCCA TT probably doesn't matter because it will be in Unlimited.
Tom1200
UltraDork
10/22/21 5:32 p.m.
This car would qualify for SCCA road racing in a couple of classes as well as autocross.
2600 lb limits what class you can fit in unless you want to be the slowest.
David S. Wallens said:
In reply to alfadriver :
I'd agree. An injected LS does sounds more relevant. (Then I told JG that we should run a Mustang body on it.)
The LS-powered Mustang in my garage concurs. Do it!
I'd be interested in seeing where this went. I picked up my MS a couple years ago but who knows what that availability will look like in 5yrs, or 10, or whenever. Seeing how to custom grassroots onto track without running afoul of the EPA is relevant to my interests.
NOT A TA said:
I have to wonder if this is kinda like a free old boat.
That is what virtually all racing is at the hobby/sportsman level is. "back in the day" It was always a running joke that a serious drug habit is much less expensive than racing. Auto racing was also many more times addictive.
jh36
HalfDork
10/22/21 7:04 p.m.
The LS is what came in the ASA cars, regardless of the brand of body. The series was sponsored/developed by GM/Delco to help develop this engine platform. ASA is over...so these chassis can platform anything. Mine was complete with original LS and the spare chassis came with the same setup.
I will be running in NASA ST1 which is purely power to weight (6:1) with a calculation that adjusts for things like tube frame, tires, etc as an equalizer. If I up the power beyond ST1 it will go into SU (unlimited).
The spec nature of the beginning of ASA is gone, so I can play with horsepower, aero and other previously taboo elements, which interests me.
dean1484 said:
NOT A TA said:
I have to wonder if this is kinda like a free old boat.
That is what virtually all racing is at the hobby/sportsman level is. "back in the day" It was always a running joke that a serious drug habit is much less expensive than racing. Auto racing was also many more times addictive.
Watching some Dale Jr podcast videos and one of his guests was a driver/owner that went to jail in the late eighties for smuggling weed to fun his team. He was still working his ass off to make it all happen and I realized that if a drug smuggler who was bringing in thousands of pounds of weed every week was still excited about making a Million dollars from winning a single race? Things are pretty screwed up in the racing world and that one should focus on having fun, period.
So just for the S&G factor I went shopping and there is a whole place on Facebook for the purchase and sale of Pro-4 cars called Pro-4 Modifieds Classifieds.
This was near the top $1500 roller $2500 with the driveline.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2444636685761011/permalink/3721849214706412/?sale_post_id=3721849214706412
Or a $1,000 roller
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2444636685761011/permalink/3500338823524120/?sale_post_id=3500338823524120
A nice looking roller with Penske Shocks for $3,200.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2444636685761011/permalink/3416742405217096/?sale_post_id=3416742405217096
To me this is the best $$$ place to start a project like this. These things are 3/4 the size of a NASCAR car. I loved working on them as everything is accessible. Once you work on one of these you will hate wrenching on street car based track cars. If I was to go racing again this is what I would do. Even if it was just open track days and autocross. The price of admission is cheep for what you are getting. Just get one with lots of spares. Especially things like shocks, bars and quick change gear sets, fuel cell, brake parts, rims etc, gages, Get as much as you can with a roller and if you can take the time with the seller and wright on every part with sharpies the sellers take on the part and what they used it for. Get a car that comes with a pile of parts. These are really important as they seem to have little value at the time of sale but to purchase them later you will be paying full price.
NOT A TA said:
I did some quick shopping on Racingjunk. Are these the same cars as the chassis project being discussed?
https://www.racingjunk.com/gt/184034740/Gt2-GTA-ASA-GT1-.html?category_id=&search=ASA+&quickSearch=1&np_offset=0&from=search
https://www.racingjunk.com/gt/184194725/2001-ASA-Monte-Carlo-GTA-GT2-SU-AMCM.html?category_id=&search=ASA+&quickSearch=1&np_offset=2&from=search#10
Yep, that's the type of cars. Obviousl these are in much better chape than what we'd be dragging home, but you get the idea. Lots of safety, lots of simplicity, lots of speed.
Interestingly enough, the one selling for $25,000, looks like it's had a LOT of work done. Swankier motor, brake and suspension upgrades, runs within a couple tents of the owners other car—a TA2 machine. All for $25,000. If that sounds like a lot, understand that you also could have bought the second place SSC car from Solo Nationals for the same price of $25,000.
Sure, one has a/c and you can drive from here to Denver if you want. But which one is going to bring the people to the fences when you run? Which one are ou going to want to go out into the garage to polish on those off-race weekends? Which one stirs your soil more when the ignition catches? I know my answers.
jh36
HalfDork
10/23/21 9:53 a.m.
grafmiata UltraDork
10/23/21 9:39 a.m.
JG Pasterjak said:
I guess I could do a Somerset, but then I'd never get any work done because I'd just be out in the garage whackin' it all day.
The cool thing about the GT-1/T-A bodywork is the molds are all still out there. Tommy Riggins i think has some Firebird or Camaro stuff, and he's just up the road in Jacksonville. Les Cannaday has al the old Rocketsports Olds Cutlass GTO/T-A molds. And ACP and Derhaag still have all their molds. Certainly someone from that list would be excited to work with a plucky car mag on a cool project...
If you would kike to be a bit more obscure, I know who has the molds for Kendall's TA Beretta. I also know that he would like to NOT have them anymore...
