alfadriver wrote: In reply to Javelin: Is there ANYTHING you don't bitch about?? Especially things you can do NOTHING about.
Wow, who pissed in your cereal this morning? 
alfadriver wrote: In reply to Javelin: Is there ANYTHING you don't bitch about?? Especially things you can do NOTHING about.
Wow, who pissed in your cereal this morning?
Adrian_Thompson wrote: No way are the FIA changing the Champ after the champaign has flowed. Too much bad press.
The penalty should be 20 seconds (equal to a stop-and-go), but I think you are right. Even if Ferrari (or anybody else) lodges the protest (and rightfully wins), I doubt the FIA would reverse the Championship, especially so long after the race. Especially considering 20 seconds at the final tally would only drop him one place. 
Javelin wrote:alfadriver wrote: In reply to Javelin: Is there ANYTHING you don't bitch about?? Especially things you can do NOTHING about.Wow, who pissed in your cereal this morning?
You?
Keith Tanner wrote:alfadriver wrote: In reply to Javelin: Is there ANYTHING you don't bitch about?? Especially things you can do NOTHING about.It's the seasonal affective disorder kicking in
I have seasonal effectiveness disorder. No matter the season, I'm not very effective.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: No way are the FIA changing the Champ after the champaign has flowed. Too much bad press.
That is what I used to think.
Javelin wrote:alfadriver wrote: In reply to Javelin: Is there ANYTHING you don't bitch about?? Especially things you can do NOTHING about.Wow, who pissed in your cereal this morning?
Who pissed in yours?
McNish explained there was no chance for Vettel to give the place back to Kobayashi since the Sauber was slowing to enter pit road.
Did Vettel deserve a time-penalty? Maybe...... But he didn't and any protests filed after the fact will be disallowed.
Here's another video analysis to fuel your angst: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFER0esusF0&feature=youtu.be
Javelin wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote: I don't think it's an issueIf you were beat for a season championship by a guy who clearly made an illegal pass would you still honestly call it not an issue? Reading the protests in the SCCA's bulletin leads me to believe otherwise. I'm no Alonso fan, but that pass was clearly illegal and Ferrari has a few weeks to lodge the protest. Vettel clearly deserves the penalty, and it would definitely vacate the championship.
Say what you will about F1, at least it doesn't have as much politics and as many whiny-pants as the SCCA!
[ducks and runs for pit wall]
Javelin wrote: The penalty should be 20 seconds (equal to a stop-and-go), but I think you are right. Even if Ferrari (or anybody else) lodges the protest (and rightfully wins), I doubt the FIA would reverse the Championship, especially so long after the race. Especially considering 20 seconds at the final tally would only drop him one place.
20 seconds is the long-established penalty for a drive-through offense given after the race is over. Vettel finished in 6th at +9.453, Schumacher in 7th at +11.907, Vergne in 8th at +28.653, Kobayashi in 9th at +31.250, so 20 seconds added to Vettel's time moves him to 8th (by less than a second), which is 4 points, which is exactly what's required to give Alonso the championship (Vettel wins the tiebreaker based on most wins).
Reports I've read say that Ferrari has until Nov 30th to protest, but that they were quoted as saying they don't plan to do so.
z31maniac wrote:Javelin wrote:You?alfadriver wrote: In reply to Javelin: Is there ANYTHING you don't bitch about?? Especially things you can do NOTHING about.Wow, who pissed in your cereal this morning?
I'd take that! That's some darn fine distance if I do say so myself! 
In reply to oldsaw:
A-bur-bur? We're talking about passing Vergne, not Kobayasi. Also, it's reviewable until 11/30 according to the FIA, so forget about protests being disallowed. It won't make a difference and probably won't happen, but he's still guilty. (Which is surprising for a robot. You figure Newey would have built one that wouldn't do that, right?)
In reply to codrus:
For some reason I kept reading the results as Schumi being 11.9 seconds behind Vettel, not the leader. Wow, that was a massive brain-fart! 
So, yeah, he would drop to 8th and be de-crowned.
I wonder why Ferrari said they wouldn't protest? Maybe they don't want the bad press of "winning that way"? It sure is odd, given their "history" with the FIA...
Javelin wrote: I wonder why Ferrari said they wouldn't protest? Maybe they don't want the bad press of "winning that way"? It sure is odd, given their "history" with the FIA...
If they had Vettel's win overturned, everyone would just say that the exact same thing would have happened if he passed a couple hundred feet later in the green section, which is true, and it would cause a massive media stink that would reach the people who buy their supercars, cologne and branded underwear. So this is finally a situation where they don't want to "win that way."
Imagine how much fun the race would have been if the safety car had come out a lap earlier and left the final lap as a free-for-all?
Javelin wrote: I wonder why Ferrari said they wouldn't protest? Maybe they don't want the bad press of "winning that way"? It sure is odd, given their "history" with the FIA...
Because it wouldn't make a differnce if they did
Adrian_Thompson wrote:Javelin wrote: I wonder why Ferrari said they wouldn't protest? Maybe they don't want the bad press of "winning that way"? It sure is odd, given their "history" with the FIA...Because it wouldn't make a differnce if they did
"Winning that way" isn't an issue. After all, they purposely broke a transmission seal on Massa's car just to give Alonso a leg up in Austin.
GameboyRMH wrote:Javelin wrote: So, no comments on Mr. McNish's very well laid out, incontestable evidence that Vettel cheated and therefore shouldn't be the Champion?The one that McNish pointed out looks forgivable. He did pass just inside of a yellow section, but right after seeing a green flag, and he may not have been able to see the yellow flag from where he was, and the car that he passed was pulling into the pits anyways.
Plus, the way I take that one, following McNish's explanation of the yellow and green imaginary lines, Vettle was between a green and a yellow. He started the pass well before the yellow flag, but it was completed afterwards. I would say since the pass began in a green section, it's valid.
-Rob
Basil Exposition wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote:"Winning that way" isn't an issue. After all, they purposely broke a transmission seal on Massa's car just to give Alonso a leg up in Austin.Javelin wrote: I wonder why Ferrari said they wouldn't protest? Maybe they don't want the bad press of "winning that way"? It sure is odd, given their "history" with the FIA...Because it wouldn't make a differnce if they did
That was sacrificing one of your drivers for the other. Nothing wrong with that unless your name is Massa.
Keith Tanner wrote: I would have loved it if Button had slowed waaaay down on the penultimate lap to let Alonso past. Just because. Heads would have exploded everywhere.
and I would have loved it if Hamilton had lifted at COTA to let Vettel have the win.
[ham] Hey fernando, remember that time when we were teammates and you delayed your pit exit to berkeley my quali when I was fighting for the championship? suck it now, bitch! [/ham]
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Case closed.
Based on this statement?
Internet Blogger said: I rocked the few frames where the marshal on the left side of the track is visible waving what, though not clear, we have to assume is a green flag. Vettel makes the pass after that green flag station so it's all legal.
He assumes it's a green (ignoring the yellows on the driver's wheel), and therefor it's legal?
(I mean it's all pee in the wind, we're not Ferrari or the FIA, but that's some bizarre "conclusion".)
Javelin wrote: In reply to codrus: For some reason I kept reading the results as Schumi being 11.9 seconds behind Vettel, not the leader. Wow, that was a massive brain-fart!
yes he would have dropped to 8th... he was 3pts ahead ( as a 7th place finisher) ... 7th = 5 pts. 8th= 3 pts. which would have left him with 279 .... still champ
1 Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull - 281
2 Fernando Alonso - Ferrari – 278
1 25 2 20 3 15 4 10 5 8 6 6 7 5 8 3 9 2 10 1
wbjones wrote: yes he would have dropped to 8th... he was 3pts ahead ( as a 7th place finisher) ... 7th = 5 pts. 8th= 3 pts. which would have left him with 279 .... still champ 1 Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull - 281 2 Fernando Alonso - Ferrari – 278 1 25 2 20 3 15 4 10 5 8 6 6 7 5 8 3 9 2 10 1
Your points are wrong, it's 25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_points_scoring_system
The plus times listed in the results are relative to the winner. So Vettel was 9.453 seconds behind Button, adding 20 puts him at 29.453, which is behind Schumacher (at 11.907) and just 8/10ths behind Vergne (at 28.653). Thus, a 20 second penalty would move him from 6th (6 points) to 8th (2 points) for a net loss of 4, handing the championship to Alonso.
Last time I checked, under FIA rules. You could pass as soon as you were past the incident causing the yellow (before the next marshal post).... If there was a second reason for a yellow, down stream from the first one, (before the next Marshal post) you are in E36 M3. If not, you are good!!
Last time I checked was at least 5 years ago, so I could be wrong...
codrus wrote:wbjones wrote: yes he would have dropped to 8th... he was 3pts ahead ( as a 7th place finisher) ... 7th = 5 pts. 8th= 3 pts. which would have left him with 279 .... still champ 1 Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull - 281 2 Fernando Alonso - Ferrari – 278 1 25 2 20 3 15 4 10 5 8 6 6 7 5 8 3 9 2 10 1Your points are wrong, it's 25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_points_scoring_system The plus times listed in the results are relative to the winner. So Vettel was 9.453 seconds behind Button, adding 20 puts him at 29.453, which is behind Schumacher (at 11.907) and just 8/10ths behind Vergne (at 28.653). Thus, a 20 second penalty would move him from 6th (6 points) to 8th (2 points) for a net loss of 4, handing the championship to Alonso.
you're right ... my bad ... I locked in on the 2010 pts ... didn't read far enough to get to the post 2010 system ( where's the oops emoticon when you need it )
According to the UK press, Ferrari is still considering filing a protest...
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