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rslifkin
rslifkin SuperDork
7/10/17 9:49 a.m.

I'd probably clean / grease the leafs and get good shocks first. See how it rides. If it's still too harsh, then look into removing a leaf and adding the airbags. No reason to spend money on air bags if you don't end up needing to soften the leaf pack.

ultraclyde
ultraclyde PowerDork
7/10/17 10:28 a.m.

So I've been doing some more digging. The 4x4 F150s from '96 used a 3" wide spring like my F250, typically in a 3+1 configuration where mine is 4+1. I'm thinking they might be a bolt-in replacement that would save me the PITA of tearing apart the existing, rusty springs. It would also make going back easier. I'm not a leaf spring expert, so you guys compare the specs below and tell me if you think I'd have any problems:

Specs for stock F250:

Spring Width 3"
Short End Length 25"
Long End Length 31.375"
Short End Eye Type Berlin
Short End Bushing RB-158
Long End Eye Type Berlin
Long End Bushing RB-157
Free Arch 8 3/8
number of Leaves 4 Over 1 = 5 Leaf
Pack Thickness 2"
Load Capacity 2450 LB

Specs for 4x4 F150:

Spring Width 3"
Short End Length 25"
Long End Length 32"
Short End Eye Type Berlin
Short End Bushing RB-158
Long End Eye Type Berlin
Long End Bushing RB-157
Free Arch 8 7/8
number of Leaves 3 Over 1 = 4 Leaves
Pack Thickness 1.625"
Load Capacity 1950 LB

I'm guessing I'll get some drop, but as I mentioned earlier I'm okay with that as the truck is raked pretty good anyway. I'd also plan on adding the airbags long term.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UberDork
7/10/17 10:36 a.m.

You can buy teflon leaf pack inserts and you can taper the ends of the individual leafs along with removing a leaf.

ultraclyde
ultraclyde PowerDork
7/10/17 11:02 a.m.
ebonyandivory wrote: You can buy teflon leaf pack inserts and you can taper the ends of the individual leafs along with removing a leaf.

The teflon is interesting. No way I'm going to start grinding down springs though. I don't have the knowledge or the patience for that to come out right once, much less duplicate it on both sides of the truck.

rslifkin
rslifkin SuperDork
7/10/17 11:05 a.m.

Ride height when empty likely won't change a whole lot, but the F-150 pack will definitely be softer (so it'll sag more under load).

If you wanted to get fancy, you could probably figure out a setup that would give you 2 stages of overload leafs, reducing the need for air bags.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UberDork
7/10/17 11:06 a.m.

In reply to ultraclyde:

It's more like cutting the ends of the leafs so they're almost pointed instead of square-cut.

I believe they use the term "diamond-cut" referring to the appearance of the corners being cut at 45 degrees.

Four Wheeler article on reducing friction

ultraclyde
ultraclyde PowerDork
7/10/17 6:00 p.m.

I just looked at my truck and the factory springs are 3+1 Not the 4+1 listed as replacements. Do you think the factory packs were just thicker springs with fewer leaves?

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
7/10/17 6:05 p.m.

If it were me i'd just experiment with rear tire pressure as a first step. First thing i'd do is lower pressure until it felt 'weird' under cornering, and then go back up a little. Then i'd tread depth at the outer edge, center, and inner edge of both tires and check back after a thousand or two miles to see if an unacceptable amount of uneven wear was occurring. Somewhere in there is a happy spot that doesn't cost you anything but a small amount of time.

ultraclyde
ultraclyde PowerDork
7/10/17 6:10 p.m.

In reply to Vigo:

Oh yeah, I'm starting there before driving to work tomorrow.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UberDork
7/10/17 6:14 p.m.

Maybe upgrade to Rancho 9000 adjustable shocks and try the softest settings unloaded.

You can always dial up the jounce and rebound when towing.

What about Sulastic shackles?

ultraclyde
ultraclyde PowerDork
7/10/17 7:06 p.m.

I looked at the sulastics. They get very mixed reviews and cost as much as the new f150 springs. Most people said they take the edge off without helping the interstate seams.

Okay, rear tires aired down to about 35. I went that low because one had already drifted down near 40 and still looked to be running fine. It's six miles to work and I have a compressor in my tool kit...

Jaynen
Jaynen SuperDork
7/10/17 10:20 p.m.

Keep in mind 35 psi is the recommended stock pressure for most vehicles/tires in the manuals these days. Only airing up when under heavy loads

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
7/10/17 10:34 p.m.

In reply to ultraclyde:

As soon as you decide you're done playing with it, give me a call.

I like the way a truck rides.

jstand
jstand HalfDork
7/10/17 11:24 p.m.
ultraclyde wrote: So I've been doing some more digging. The 4x4 F150s from '96 used a 3" wide spring like my F250, typically in a 3+1 configuration where mine is 4+1. I'm thinking they might be a bolt-in replacement that would save me the PITA of tearing apart the existing, rusty springs. It would also make going back easier. I'm not a leaf spring expert, so you guys compare the specs below and tell me if you think I'd have any problems...

Rather than trying to find springs that might work, I'd look for a good spring shop.

They should be able to make some recommendations based on your specific needs rather than trying to adapt something based on internet advice.

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 SuperDork
7/10/17 11:33 p.m.

Can confirm the F250 will beat you up when unladen. The 2wd is far more comfy than the 4x4 btw. My Excursion was pretty rough as well though the tired, soft Monroe shocks made it a bit more tolerable - at the expense of more stress when towing.

Switched to a 1/2 ton Silverado GMT800. So much nicer to drive.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UberDork
7/11/17 7:38 a.m.

I remember a magazine Scout 800 getting custom leaf packs made. Stock was a few thick leaves while the more flexible packs getting made were SEVERAL thinner leaves and it looked like it would ride horribly because the packs were now so thick but was actually much softer.

noddaz
noddaz SuperDork
7/11/17 8:28 a.m.

Put a couple hundred pounds of sand in the bed in sandbags until the ride smooths out.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UberDork
7/11/17 9:35 a.m.

In reply to noddaz:

I always liked the idea of filling a waterbed mattress in the bed.

ultraclyde
ultraclyde PowerDork
7/11/17 9:41 a.m.

I drove it to work with the tires aired down to 35psi in the rear this morning and it felt some better. After sleeping on the idea of swapping springs I'm not sure I want to go that route. Part of it is that I don't really want to neuter a HD truck even if it is reversible. I have also read that the guys who remove one leaf in the rear have some issues with axle wrap. Sure you can add traction bars for the axle wrap, and air bags for the capacity, but now it's getting a bit Rube Goldberg.

All of which brings me back to throwing some weight in the bed. I have some issues with this. First is safety in the event of a wreck. Heavy objects flying out of the bed toward the back of my head make me nervous. Secondly is the fact it takes up space and capacity if I do need to load it up. Anything that weighs 800 lbs offers some barriers to easily removing it when I need to. Third, it adds wear and tear on the truck and decreased mpg.

As a solution I've spent the morning designing a PT wood insert that will hold 8 poured concrete blocks that are light enough to be reasonably removed by hand (and have handles) but the entire structure adds up to about 725lbs. The rack will sit over the axle and be cut to fit tight around the wheel wells. With some additional mounting TBD, it should be fairly secure in an accident. It will be semi permanent but removable in about 30 minutes, plus I can top deck it with plywood and outdoor carpet and mount tie downs, bike mounts, whatever. It will only be about 8" tall so I can still load a fair amount on top of it. It's adjustable weight by removing blocks or filling in some planned expansion spaces for another 250lbs. This should also address some issues I've had with lack of traction on a couple gravel hills and give me a little more grip at the boat ramp. I can also build it completely for about the cost of 1 spring (quikcrete is cheaper per lb than bagged sand.) As for wear and tear and mileage...I'll just tell myself it's not that big an impact.

If this doesn't work at least I can reuse the components around the house in future projects.

ultraclyde
ultraclyde PowerDork
7/11/17 9:44 a.m.
SVreX wrote: In reply to ultraclyde: As soon as you decide you're done playing with it, give me a call. I like the way a truck rides.

LOL so do I. Until the third straight hour on I-16 while I'm worn out from a long fun weekend. Then I want a Cadillac.

OTOH, for only $10k it could be yours! It's not worth anywhere near that much, but that's what I'd need to replace it with anything that wouldn't make me regret the decision, LOL.

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro Dork
7/11/17 9:48 a.m.

Does your truck have the dual fuel tanks? If so, you could get the rear tank from a box/uhaul truck, 36 gallon I think. That would put weight over the rear, and increase your fuel range. No loss of bed space either.

ultraclyde
ultraclyde PowerDork
7/11/17 10:07 a.m.
81cpcamaro wrote: Does your truck have the dual fuel tanks? If so, you could get the rear tank from a box/uhaul truck, 36 gallon I think. That would put weight over the rear, and increase your fuel range. No loss of bed space either.

It does, but doesn't that require losing the under-bed spare?

EDIT: with a little google-fu I found there is a part number out there for a 38 gallon tank off a mid 80's F150 that is a near-bolt in replacement for the rear 14 gal tank on mine - and it retains the spare.

Cost on the tank itself is $153 plus shipping.

Sadly it would then cost me more to fill up the truck every time than it does to build the weight rack!

That's cool, actually. the ability to go over 1000 miles without refueling or having an in-bed tank is pretty damn cool. But it would only add 170 or so lbs over what I have now when absolutely full.

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