Seen one or two around here, but I agree with the others who said it's a bad business model. The Porsche and Mercedes hybrids get to share development costs with their non-hybrid models, and if you can't hang with those on fit and finish, it seems you've got a poor shot at stealing customers from them.
Not to mention Porsche, Mercedes, and the like have established customer bases to foist a Hybrid of their already good selling car on. It also gives a certain segment of the population that very much wants to be seen as enviro-friendly a much nicer car to drive around than a Prius.
HiTempguy wrote:Tom Suddard wrote: Alternative energy is important. That's why we're funding it. Not to make the government money. Now, bailing out banks is what makes us money. http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/11/business/la-fi-mo-aig-bailout-treasury-department-20121211 But yeah you're right Obama sucks.well that was a pretty poorly thought out, trollish post. I expect better from the magazine staff!
Correct! Sound familiar to anyone?
Anyway, that's all you get at 10pm on a Saturday night. I'm not going to change any minds here.
Politics aside, I'd just like to know when the government will quit gambling with other peoples' money. Even if they do believe they know what's best for us.
I hate to see any company fail, whether they got government money or not. And about that last - what do you think the government's goal was? To seed a company that would provide jobs and expand automotive technological boundaries, that's what. Did it work? Only partially.
Failure is the foundation of success. Try, fail, iterate, rinse, repeat. There is never success without failure. The reality is that a substantial majority of businesses fail. And private investment? The majority of venture capital money, money given by experienced business people who make a hell of a lot of money through VC investments and should know what constitutes a good investment, is lost to failed businesses. It's just the way it is, and to try to force it to be any other way would slow progress on nearly every technological or scientific front immeasurably.
To expect nothing but success from government and business (collectively made up of fallible people, just like everyone reading this) is unrealistic at best. Instead of yelling about this failure being a load of bullE36 M3, we should instead recognize that failure happens, unfortunate though it might be, and hope this failure helps lay the groundwork for future sucesses.
JeffHarbert wrote: I hate to see any company fail, whether they got government money or not. And about that last - what do you think the government's goal was? To seed a company that would provide jobs and expand automotive technological boundaries, that's what. Did it work? Only partially. Failure is the foundation of success. Try, fail, iterate, rinse, repeat. There is never success without failure. The reality is that a substantial majority of businesses fail. And private investment? The majority of venture capital money, money given by experienced business people who make a hell of a lot of money through VC investments and should know what constitutes a good investment, is lost to failed businesses. It's just the way it is, and to try to force it to be any other way would slow progress on nearly every technological or scientific front immeasurably. To expect nothing but success from government and business (collectively made up of fallible people, just like everyone reading this) is unrealistic at best. Instead of yelling about this failure being a load of bullE36 M3, we should instead recognize that failure happens, unfortunate though it might be, and hope this failure helps lay the groundwork for future sucesses.
QFT. Very well written Mr Harbert.
Remember also, that contrary to private investors, the government always makes some money, because of the IRS and other taxation while the company is in business.
JeffHarbert wrote: I hate to see any company fail, whether they got government money or not.
Wait, did you just write "government money"? I wonder where they came up with that kind of dough? (LOL @ "government money")
Edit: no personal attack intended by above post
ebonyandivory wrote:JeffHarbert wrote: I hate to see any company fail, whether they got government money or not.Wait, did you just write "government money"? I wonder where they came up with that kind of dough? (Hahahahahahaha @ "government money")
Seriously? Yes, I wrote "government money." The government taxes the people to get money, and then they spend it. Once they have the money, it's theirs to spend, even if we don't agree with how they do so. This is part of living in a society with a representative government.
Not sure which is more laughable and/or pathetic... The "government money" thing or the "representative government" thing.
After all, what's truly "representative" of policies and expenditures being jammed down our throats that a vast majority do not want?
JeffHarbert wrote:ebonyandivory wrote:Seriously? Yes, I wrote "government money." The government taxes the people to get money, and then they spend it. Once they have the money, it's theirs to spend, even if we don't agree with how they do so. This is part of living in a society with a representative government.JeffHarbert wrote: I hate to see any company fail, whether they got government money or not.Wait, did you just write "government money"? I wonder where they came up with that kind of dough? (Hahahahahahaha @ "government money")
Actually they just burn it. They print new money to cover the countries costs. There is almost no relation between the amount that is collected in taxes and what they spend. 'Tis the cause of inflation to a large degree. Fake borrowed dollars from China doesn't help with inflation front either.
Tom Suddard wrote: Correct! Sound familiar to anyone? Anyway, that's all you get at 10pm on a Saturday night. I'm not going to change any minds here.
Interestingly enough, my post was made more in jest and a good ribbing than actually being up in your grill about your political views (I thought that would come through from the last part of my post).
Nonetheless, not going to lie, GRM has been making me sad lately in that the more liberal individuals on this board have taken to saying provocative feel good things (whether factually they are backed up or not) and when countered, basically gang up on the person who is countering their statements and squelching any dissent on the board.
Maybe that is the owner's intent. I lurk as good as I troll, so I could always go back to not posting.
HiTempguy wrote:Tom Suddard wrote: Correct! Sound familiar to anyone? Anyway, that's all you get at 10pm on a Saturday night. I'm not going to change any minds here.Nonetheless, not going to lie, GRM has been making me sad lately in that the more liberal individuals on this board have taken to saying provocative feel good things (whether factually they are backed up or not) and when countered, basically gang up on the person who is countering their statements and squelching any dissent on the board.
Well, if you say something often enough that makes it true, right?
HiTempguy wrote: GRM has been making me sad lately in that the more liberal individuals on this board have taken to saying provocative feel good things (whether factually they are backed up or not) and when countered, basically gang up on the person who is countering their statements and squelching any dissent on the board.
Odd. I haven't noticed that. I feel like the conservatives and libertarians here have a tendency to shout people down. The problem is so sever that I try to avoid most political threads. If there's been a recent shift (which, as I said, I have not noticed) it would be bringing some much needed balance to the community.
Or, alternately, everybody could shut up about politics. That's the best situation, IMHO.
Since this is clearly turning political, I'm done with this thread. Ya'll can have the last word and tell me how stupid you think I am.
Tom Suddard, I found your campaign slogan. "Patio the cannucks" 
JoeyM wrote: Ya'll can have the last word and tell me how stupid you think I am.
I would NEVER call you or anyone on this board stupid. It's just that we were asked to discuss Fiskers potential demise and its rather impossible to do so without bringing up who's money they blew and who gave it to them.
irish44j wrote:Sultan wrote:I could, but I won't waste my time, since I prefer talking about cars. Clearly you're being sarcastic so it's doubtful that any example I could cite would be accepted as legitimate by you if that is the case. You have the internet...If you actually want to "learn more" I'm sure you can find whatever information suits your fancy. EDIT: deleted the rest, since this is a pointless and endless conversation. Just like Fisker was a pointless company with a finite customer base that couldn't support its product.irish44j wrote:Irish44j - Defiantly interested in learning more this companies. "federally-subsidized companies in the alternate-energy sector that are doing great and making huge profits." Can you point me in the right direction to learn more?Dr. Hess wrote: Yeah, they look like they're all done: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/06/report-obama-backed-fisker-lays-offs-workers-faces-suit-by-solyndra-related/ Thank God they didn't fire the Executives. Yet.ah Fox News, always on the lookout for any program that got a federal subsidy and then ended up failing, and let's throw Solyndra in there just to make sure everyone knows that Fisker's demise is directly attributable to Obama... Wonder if Fox has ever done a story on all those federally-subsidized companies in the alternate-energy sector that are doing great and making huge profits. (ex-republican now rolling my eyes smiley goes here)
I wrote my comment specifically to not imply anything but interest yet you assumed negative intent.
You made the claim and I truly I would love to learn about these companies. Can you point me in a direction? I'm not even sure how to search for them. Really just one company would be great.
Thank you.
Government loans are not meant to make a profit, unlike a bank loan. they go along the same way as Small Business Loans which have a high rate of default.
Well they produced a neat product and also had some cool technology. Sad to see them go.
It was a neat product, cool technology etc but at the end of the day it just was not practical. If I am plunking down $100k plus I expect to get some use from it.
Add to that the much publicized fires and Fisker's reaction to them, I'm not surprised they went under. Of course We The People will aborb the loss in the name of progress.
About the only difference between this and DeLorean's fiasco was the absence of a suitcase full of booger sugar.
Curmudgeon wrote: About the only difference between this and DeLorean's fiasco was the absence of a suitcase full of booger sugar.
That and flux capacitors
"Government spending," (non-representative taxpayer spending, whatever) seems to be the most effective when it takes on projects too big or too risky for the largest private sectors. Paving a country's roads, culminating developments to get into space, etc.. Once the project had cross-industry involvement, it could have developed into something much more relevant.
With this project, the government could have de-emphasized the vehicular component of Fisker, and instead emphasized broader energy storage technology and the changes to our grid necessary to comprehensively support a battery-intensive infrastructure.
iceracer wrote: Government loans are not meant to make a profit, unlike a bank loan. they go along the same way as Small Business Loans which have a high rate of default.
Not making a profit is understandable. Getting hosed and losing your shirt repeatedly is a whole "nother" story.
The government's track record would instantly improve if they resorted to buying lottery tickets
Politics aside, I'd just like to know when the government will quit gambling with other peoples' money.
Do you, per chance, keep your money at a bank, good sir? Just sayin'
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the biggest problem right now that they lost their battery manufacturer?
I'd rather see the government actually repave the roads around here instead of funding things that are doomed to fail. I suppose I wish the same bean counter that nixed the carbon motors loan was around for the Fisker one in the beginning....
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