Five years later, what does GRM make of the CR-Z?

CR-Z Sport Hybrid Gets Supercharged with HPD Street Performance

apparently Honda still thinks it has merits.

I drank a few too many the other night and did a mental project of turning a CRZ into a D sports racer. Cut the roof and windshield, gut the interior, just a a couple a race seats, a double hoop roll bar with a composite panel covering the now exposed hatch panel that led up to the roll bar for nice finished look. Do an engine swap for a turbo 2.0L + power plant and use the electric motor like a KERS device.

Then I went to bed.

Can you imagine what a hit they'd of had if instead of the hybrid motor, they'd just dropped a 2.4 in there?

Needs a k swap and it'll be fine. Once they're truly cheap, they'll come out of the woodwork.

There's always this if you feel like spending too much money to go to people who can't write properly....http://www.lhtperformance.net/documents/kr-z.html

Hasport was supposed to make mounts for swaps but that never happened.

I mean it is on the Fit chassis with rear disc and five lug which is great. Problems are like others have said, they don't respond well to mods (the engine), and the stupid IMA system. Other than that great looking car with a Honda weird interior.

rcutclif wrote: I dunno, could be cool to look into modding the electrical side of things. Better battery, add another motor controller in series to over-volt the crap out of the electric motor. RallyX. Sounds fun to me.

We had a CR-Z rallycrossing with us in Stock class for a while.

Hybrids were just made legal for Modified class (the rule used to be "Engine is free but must be internal combustion.") The new rule is to the effect of hybrids and EVs are allowed as long as the high voltage systems remain 100% stock. And the list of components you can modify in the lessor classes does not include HV components.

Does anyone even mod hybrids for more power? A genuine question.

In reply to Knurled:

Yes. Popular in Europe to mod the crap out of a Prius

Honda now has this kit listed above.

If you will remember the first Accord Hybrid wasn't for fuel savings but as a power adder

In reply to Flight Service:

True, on the V6 no less. I can also atest to the fact that a v6 7th gen did not need more power.

Kreb wrote: Can you imagine what a hit they'd of had if instead of the hybrid motor, they'd just dropped a 2.4 in there?

Yes, this. An updated CR with a K-series would've paid proper homage to its lineage. However, our current malaise era of Japanese autos reckons いいえ. To be sure, I've racked my brain over the decision for Honda to make the CR-Z a hybrid and I still haven't been able to figure it. The idea of the CR and that of hybrid technology seem antithetical to each other.

Kreb wrote: Can you imagine what a hit they'd of had if instead of the 1.5 engine, they dropped a 2.4 engine with the electric motor in there?

Fixed that for you.

captdownshift wrote: In reply to calteg: whoa whoa whoa, the Element is pretty damn awesome, so awesome that they killed it

Ahhh the Element. Ford produces a Ranger with vinyl seats and washout floors, and it's dubbed a bottom-of-the-barrel POS. Honda produces a mediocre "suv" with vinyl seats and washout floors, suddenly everyone is spraying their shorts over how innovative it is.

SlickDizzy wrote: So, why does everyone hate these so much? Are they impossible to tweak into a spirited daily driver type vehicle?

My take:

Good commuter with decent depreciation. I bought a basically new cr-z with less than 20,000 miles for 14k a few years ago. Same year civics and insights were selling for more$$.

At the depreciation point, it is an excellent car. At MSRP, it has a lot of competition.

Real world driving:

Economy: Mine is a stick shift, slick 6 speed. Real world MPG mostly 40-42mpg mostly highway. My personal record for hypermiling is 52 mpg for a tank, Worst tanks of just beating on it around town are 32ish mpg. This thing is not highway amazing for MPG, but pretty good. Where I am impressed is its ability to never really get below 30mpg, no matter how I drive it. No magic aero trickery, go over 70mpg and you can't get above 40mpg.

Fun: When I test drove it, it reminded me of my NA miata that was in winter storage. Driving it side by side, the miata beats it for fun factor, but if you are DD'n a jeep xj, it will feel like a na miata..

It has obviously about 1degree negative camber on the rear, probably zero or neutral on the front, and with old tires it will lift throttle oversteer, or the tail will come around if you over cook it. Those batteries out back apparently matter. The stability control will catch it (not smoothly), but is easily defeated. I autocrossed mine once because my miata was broken, it was the first FWD car I ever autocrossed, and I did pretty well on crap tires with no real knowledge of FWD dynamics. I also spun it on an ax course with a spectator passenger. If you push it stupid it will understeer, but try to keep it balanced and it is relatively neutral.

Power: this thing feels slow, especially with the IMA battery "depleted." It just doesn't rev honda like. It revs nice and smooth to redline, but has no more urgencey at higher RPM. The IMA when fully charged isn't quite torque fill smart, it has more of a feel of a low boost turbo with limited life. No problems with a full charge lasting a 0-80mph pull, but play your cards wrong and you can drain the battery and wind up with no assist. Real world, it is not slow, the engine is just sort-of "linear" and not peaky.

Hacking/modding:

I would love to find more info, but it just doesn't seem out there yet for the crz. The insight has been HACKED (manual IMA controll) , the prius hacked, but I'm not aware of anyone modding the ima from the cr-z.

The inability to control the hybrid system is frustrating, especially when you know what type of conditions lay ahead the car can not know (highway driving, long hills etc.) The MIMA insight guys have this figured out, but I'm not aware of anyone that has hacked the crz this much.

gas engine related, I think the supercharger is the plug and play easy way (HPD!) but it is costly. Get a 12k crz, put 8k in supercharger, you now have a 20k used car., what market does that put it in? Engine swaps look cool, but I don't understand honda wiring compatabilities; the climate control is integrated into the IMA and the stop start, pretty dash, fun buttons(mostly affect power steering), how do you keep your auto climate control with a fancy Si/acura type motor?

Bottom line: I have a love hate relationship with my crz. I love that it is somewhat sporty and fun to drive, I love that it is a stick shift and has a small car feel, yet is practical. I can take it on a long highway trip and not get beat up like my miata, but it is no bmw/caddy highway cruiser. I love that it is reliable, I love that it is economical. It is oddly over-capable in the snow. It has a very decent stock stereo. I hate that it is somewhat boring (it is a hybrid after all) I hate that it is not impressively fast, I hate that it is the "smart decision."

If you like it stock, you should love it at the depreciated price point. If you feel it needs modded, its probably better to wait for them to bottom out.

I had a Volt, and replaced it at end of lease with a CR-Z. The CR-Z can change direction better, but the Volt has more everything else, except maybe pedals. The technology gap is so wide as to be laughable.

If you choose a 2013 or later, you get lithium ion instead of NiMH batteries, more power, and the Sport+ button for extra power.

I thought I'd like the Sport+ feature more, but it was poorly executed for manual transmission cars. It kicks the system off if you lift, so you're having to hit the button, which is on the right side of the steering wheel after every shift to keep the system going. Where is your right hand when you're accelerating and shifting? Is it at 3 o'clock, or is it on the shifter? Add the reaction time of the button, and you find yourself driving a car that has a lot of power moments after you stop needing it.

This makes me sound like I hate the CR-Z. I don't. It is fun to drive. It has Miata level power and size with way more interior space. It represents a certain collection of compromises, so sometimes I wish I'd gone with another Volt and gave up on the third pedal. Other times, I wish I'd bought an Abarth or Miata and gave up on the fancy hybrid drive train for something with a little more joy and sense of occasion.

Mike wrote: Other times, I wish I'd bought an Abarth or Miata and gave up on the fancy hybrid drive train for something with a little more joy and sense of occasion.

I have on 2 separate occasions considered trading my crz for an arbarth. The little fiat has more personality, will still return 30+ mpg's. The fiat made me smile over and over. The honda has a solid reliablity reputation, the fiat's are known for crazy repairs (splitting transmissions, excessive wear, replacing odd parts etc.) The fiat's are also known for reliability, so who knows what you read on the internet.

The miata is way more fun to drive, but has less room, and will absolutely beat you up on a road trip. My honda sits in the summer because NA miata, but gets driven whenever I need to travel over an hour. The fiat feels like it will fall over in a turn, makes amazing turbo/growling noises, moves faster than it should, has a fun funky interior. The honda is the compromise, and therefore boring, but smart. And you can heal toe the crz, the shifter is smooth.

calteg wrote:

captdownshift wrote: In reply to calteg: whoa whoa whoa, the Element is pretty damn awesome, so awesome that they killed it

Ahhh the Element. Ford produces a Ranger with vinyl seats and washout floors, and it's dubbed a bottom-of-the-barrel POS. Honda produces a mediocre "suv" with vinyl seats and washout floors, suddenly everyone is spraying their shorts over how innovative it is.

Stupid comparison. Apples and Oranges.

What made the element so revolutionary is Honda built a small fuel efficient suv with a huge interior that was as useful as a cargo van. Most cute-utes have carpet and interior bits you could loose a Chihuahua in and less space than the original mini

Someone got real smart and decided to build this The MV-1 is a cab usually that is ADA compliant (mandated in NY to be 50% of the fleet 2020) and has all the underpinnings of a Crown Vic.

Everyone always said that Honda should have given the element full size independent rear doors and painted the fenders. This is proof of that.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

dean1484 wrote: I just don't like the looks. The volt I think looks much better.

That's like saying you don't like the looks of the Fiesta you think the Mustang looks much better. The Volt and CRZ have almost nothing in common except that they are hybrids. Different size, shape, # of seats, class, intended usage etc. Anyway, I think the CRZ is the best looking car Honda have made in years.

That is like saying I am settling for the best looking ugly car of the bunch. And yes I would take a mustang over a focus. I just don't like the looks of the crz. Never did. Also cars are 99.9 percent of the time used as alliances. If the Volt is a better car to live with on a day to day basis it is a better car. Since I have not driven either car all I can go with is looks and the CRZ I find not appealing. It is like the girl / guy at the bar that is trying to hard to be cool. The original CRZ was not trying to be anything. It was a great car. It did not have to try and be anything it was cool.

I looked into the CRZ a few years ago when I was shopping to replace my WRX. I liked the idea of the car, but the execution didn't work out for me in my situation. You can get a fully loaded one for close to $10k now, which is still a good deal, but it didn't fit my needs. The car has a puny gas tank and so-so fuel range, even with the hybrid system, which is disappointing.

I really need to drive one and see how I feel. On the CR-Z forum, guys are getting an extra 20+ horses or so at the wheels with about $1k in NA bolt-on parts. From what everyone says that could be just enough to make the difference.

In reply to SlickDizzy:

Things I wish I'd given more attention to during the test drive:

Pedal and clutch feel: there is absolutely none.

Heel toe: I can never quite get the throttle blip I want. I wonder if it's some econ thing, or just me. It's better in sport mode.

Aircon is a little weak, and I don't think the temperature setting means what it does in other cars. If it's really hot, and you set 70F, it should come on max until it approaches that cabin temp. It doesn't. I find myself setting LO often.

If you hit the clutch while in cruise, it maintains revs.

The keys are silly huge.

The hatch dimensions make a roof rack a tricky affair that could kill your rear window.

Woody wrote:

bravenrace wrote: So what if THIS happens: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2018-honda-cr-z-rendered-may-ditch-hybrid-for-new-turbo-news

I hope that this happens.

I hope they choose S1000 over this or better yet make all these crazy cars they are showing lately.

However, our current malaise era of Japanese autos

I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks this way.

penultimeta wrote: The idea of the CR and that of hybrid technology seem antithetical to each other.

What about the CR-V?

SlickDizzy wrote: I really need to drive one and see how I feel. On the CR-Z forum, guys are getting an extra 20+ horses or so at the wheels with about $1k in NA bolt-on parts. From what everyone says that could be just enough to make the difference.

I need to look into those too. 20 more in my Civic Hybrid would be wonderful, and probably improve MPG.

In reply to bigev007:

The must-haves seem to be: Takeda intake, T1R downpipe, and your choice of cat-back exhaust that's absolutely not any bigger than 2.25". Many also swap on the Honda Fit intake manifold, which offers about 5HP at the expense of about 5 ft. lbs, but that sounds like it should be done last (if at all) to tweak the powerband to your preference. Guys are also getting in there and putzing with Hondata for some reasonable gains.

CR-Z dyno thread