For $5k, Anything Better Than an MR-S?

NONACK wrote: M3- can they be had in "not totally ruined" condition at $5k?

the 318ti can.. it's no slower than the MR-S and with a simple swap of shocks/struts and springs, turns into an M3 killer (at least in handling, not so much in power). When I had mine, running the Bilstein PSS9 coilovers, poly bushings, and big fat sticky 235 wide Star Specs, I could simply not find enough road to challenge the car without getting into some really dangerous situations. The Handling was quite "boring" for day to day duties as it was far too good for what it was being asked to do.

HiTempguy wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: We'll fight to the death about the AllTrac/GT4, though. Those things are the original true bad boy AWD Turbo beasts from Nippon-land. I'd rather a WRX as well. If it didn't come with the E36 M3ty motor, the glass transmission, the ugly tarted-up econobox looks, and the low-rent interior.

You should tell that to every single person that rallies a Subaru in North America. For some reason, I think they would disagree with you on any of the (false) points you have made :P And a guy who is in love with whatever weird Mazda's you are has no right to call the Impreza an econobox. For the price, its traits were infinitely better at the time than any domestic available at the time, which IMO is relatively high praise. What's odd is we can readily get JDM-land Celica's up here... and nobody gives a E36 M3 about them. Because they suck lol.

You let me know when the WRX driveline is perfectly happy at 4x stock horsepower levels and the motor stops dropping ringlands.

There's a very good reason why the AllTrac/GT4 was never popular in North American rally, and it's not hard to figure out. You're just ignoring it because it's convenient.

As for crapbox econocar Mazdas? Did your precious Subaroos come with electronic adjustable speed-sensitive feedback power steering? What about in-cabin adjustable speed-sensitive suspension? Factory subwoofer? CD player in 1988? Oscillating center air vents?

Sure sounds crapbox to me, right?

But putting this back to the subject at hand, you're going to make the argument that the Subaru interiors of the time were better than the AllTrac/GT4? Yeah?

The cars don't suck. They're ridiculously strong and well-built. They just weren't made in large quantities so the support isn't anywhere near what a Subaru has. Still plenty to get the job done, but they aren't for the lazy and mindless, that's for sure.

In reply to Swank Force One:

Speaking of that car, I wonder if I can get it running by the NeDiv Rallycross challenge for less than $5k total...

Probably a bad idea, but it has been bugging me.

EDIT: I emailed him, damn you people

I would sell my 2000 for 4900.00

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/ctd/4591294036.html

I bought a 2002 with 56k, great cars. I got 6th overall at the last autocross out of 52 cars first time driving it.

NONACK wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: Speaking of that car, I wonder if I can get it running by the NeDiv Rallycross challenge for less than $5k total... Probably a bad idea, but it has been bugging me. EDIT: I emailed him, damn you people

Probably.

I'd just stick a stock Gen2 motor in that thing, sell off the parts from the old motor you don't want.

Gen2s are cheap these days.

I don't want to share this one, because it's the one i'm going for if i can move off the Miata quick, but....

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/4589014997.html

I'd rather have a later one with the 6-speed and LSD

DaveEstey wrote: I'd rather have a later one with the 6-speed and LSD

Which car?

Swank Force One wrote: You let me know when the WRX driveline is perfectly happy at 4x stock horsepower levels and the motor stops dropping ringlands.

Neither of these (in MY opinion) are a reason to say a car or its driveline is junk. I haven't met a person yet who has honestly had a blown Subaru engine without "user error" involved.

There's a very good reason why the AllTrac/GT4 was never popular in North American rally, and it's not hard to figure out. You're just ignoring it because it's convenient.

Do tell? Considering how popular they were around the world, you'd think it would have happened. Considering that Mitsubishi Lancer's (which weren't available), and even turbo WRX's before they were available were rallied here extensively, it may just be that it was a heavy, expensive piece of garbage :p

As for crapbox econocar Mazdas? Did your precious Subaroos come with electronic adjustable speed-sensitive feedback power steering? What about in-cabin adjustable speed-sensitive suspension? Factory subwoofer? CD player in 1988? Oscillating center air vents?

Oh yea... all that E36 M3 that breaks on them. Ma bad All of those features also made those cars SOOOOO much better than the competition at the time... right? Right? (crickets chirping)

But putting this back to the subject at hand, you're going to make the argument that the Subaru interiors of the time were better than the AllTrac/GT4? Yeah?

Nobody made that argument. The Subaru is a hell of a lot more useful, which for 95% of people is part of the reason they buy a car.

but they aren't for the lazy and mindless, that's for sure.

Well no kidding. Thanks for that stunning piece of insight (if you haven't noticed, I am strictly busting your balls due to your fanboism. There is nothing inherently wrong with a Alltrac, they are cool, but are basically worthless in value. kind of like a Merkur or a Starquest).

Pimp's MR-S looks pretty good. I'd go with that or the Black turbo.

mad_machine wrote:

NONACK wrote: M3- can they be had in "not totally ruined" condition at $5k?

the 318ti can.. it's no slower than the MR-S and with a simple swap of shocks/struts and springs, turns into an M3 killer (at least in handling, not so much in power). When I had mine, running the Bilstein PSS9 coilovers, poly bushings, and big fat sticky 235 wide Star Specs, I could simply not find enough road to challenge the car without getting into some really dangerous situations. The Handling was quite "boring" for day to day duties as it was far too good for what it was being asked to do.

The 318ti is far slower than an MR-S, stock for stock. We're talking like 0-60 in 8.9 (318ti) versus 6.9 (MR-S) and 1/4 mile in 16.6 (318ti) versus 15.6 (MR-S). That's a pretty big difference.

mad_machine wrote: the 318ti can.. it's no slower than the MR-S and with a simple swap of shocks/struts and springs, turns into an M3 killer (at least in handling, not so much in power).

It is a lot slower than a MR-S and it's handling is no match for an M3 with worn out dampers. They are fun cars in their own right but lets be realistic here. Even a 4 dr 325i with the same PSS9s will eat it's lunch, push it down in the mud and make cruel jokes about it's mama taking it up the hatch from a CRX.

HiTempguy wrote: Neither of these (in MY opinion) are a reason to say a car or its driveline is junk. I haven't met a person yet who has honestly had a blown Subaru engine without "user error" involved.

It is, comparitively.

HiTempguy wrote: Do tell? Considering how popular they were around the world, you'd think it would have happened. Considering that Mitsubishi Lancer's (which weren't available), and even turbo WRX's before they were available were rallied here extensively, it may just be that it was a heavy, expensive piece of garbage :p

That's why it was so successful in WRC, amirite? Because it was heavy garbage? You are aware that it weighs about the same as the cars you love so much, right?

HiTempguy wrote: Oh yea... all that E36 M3 that breaks on them. Ma bad All of those features also made those cars SOOOOO much better than the competition at the time... right? Right? (crickets chirping)

That stuff actually doesn't break on them. But you've never actually spent time in them, so i wouldn't expect you to know that. The point was that the "econocar crapboxes" you say i mess with have more features and a better interior than the WRX. A decade or more later. I wouldn't say it makes them better than the cars we're talking about, because only a moron would compare a FWD coupe against an AWD sedan in the first place.

HiTempguy wrote: Well no kidding. Thanks for that stunning piece of insight (if you haven't noticed, I am strictly busting your balls due to your fanboism. There is nothing inherently wrong with a Alltrac, they are cool, but are basically worthless in value. kind of like a Merkur or a Starquest).

Heh, likewise. I just prefer "useless" to "there's no way in hell this thing will hold up to what i'd like to do with it.

Also: berkeley the formatting on this damn board. I've tried to delete the blockquotes at the end of the post that's making it go all apeE36 M3 five times now, and it staunchly refuses to let them go.

DaveEstey wrote: I'd rather have a later one with the 6-speed and LSD

I just realized you were referencing the MR-S. LSD was 2004-2005 only, no 6spds were available.

Damn that black one is a deal!

From talking to several people who autocross mr2 in ES the LSD equipped cars are slower, apparently at stock power levels the LSD makes them push.

Someone here mentioned not being able to find a Boxter worth a hoot for under 7k. There is a local one here that looks pretty nice. Its not an S, but at $6,500, it might be a decent deal, if you're into Porsche.

http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/1440284?ad_cid=2

The MR-S looks considerably better with the roll bar, but it doesn't look like my head would fit in there any better than a Miata with a bar.

dculberson wrote: The 318ti is far slower than an MR-S, stock for stock. We're talking like 0-60 in 8.9 (318ti) versus 6.9 (MR-S) and 1/4 mile in 16.6 (318ti) versus 15.6 (MR-S). That's a pretty big difference.

I just looked up the specs on the MR-S. I had no clue they were that light with the manual. The few I had run up against must have been that semi-automatic one (that is the same speed to 60 as the 318ti).

Having said that.. the 318ti is faster than people realize. It needs a shift to 3rd to reach 60mph.. that tends to slow down it's zero to 60 time. You are correct though, the MR-S is a lot faster

Woody wrote: The MR-S looks considerably better with the roll bar, but it doesn't look like my head would fit in there any better than a Miata with a bar.

Stock vs. stock, the MR-S has considerably more headroom than the Miata.

I'll say it again. I sold my 1JZ SC for $5300 last year. You can get these cheap as hell.

Swank Force One wrote:

DaveEstey wrote: I'd rather have a later one with the 6-speed and LSD

I just realized you were referencing the MR-S. LSD was 2004-2005 only, no 6spds were available.

Time to price out Celica swaps.

Swank Force One wrote:

Woody wrote: The MR-S looks considerably better with the roll bar, but it doesn't look like my head would fit in there any better than a Miata with a bar.

Stock vs. stock, the MR-S has considerably more headroom than the Miata.

I'm wondering about helmet vs. rollbar.

Woody wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Woody wrote: The MR-S looks considerably better with the roll bar, but it doesn't look like my head would fit in there any better than a Miata with a bar.

Stock vs. stock, the MR-S has considerably more headroom than the Miata.

I'm wondering about helmet vs. rollbar.

I have to put a Miata seat all the way back. MR-S about 2" from all the way back.

What does this mean? No idea.

OneJay brings up a valid point. The SC300s and IS300s are going for under 5k all day. Powerful engines and a half decent chassis. Toyota reliability? Might not be a bad way to go, I think people forget about these cars, and suddenly they drop in price and spring back into the spotlight. Gotta catch 'em at the lowpoint.