In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :
The GLA45 is lovely to autocross and Mercedes calls that an SUV. Maybe not as good as the car version, but lifting it a couple of inches doesn't necessarily destroy it. Jeep makes a 700hp rocket of an SUV that is supposed to be fun on track if a bit expensive on consumables. If everything is an SUV maybe they'll make lowered sport SUV's?
Being any other car company, I would be celebrating this admission of defeat from Ford.
By getting out of the car business, Ford has let out of the bag that they have a blind spot in their product innovation infrastructure; they unable to identify and respond to a market segment and respond with appropriate products that sell and make a profit.
That also tells me that they lack the same in-house infrastructure for truck development and that they are just milking a temporal reality where trucks seem to make sense. So in other words, they got lucky and are currently in the right place with the right product at the right time.
Anyone else here who has not live through a couple of economic downturns and fuel-price crisis where large vehicles are not affordable? How is your ford stock going to look next time that happens?
mazdeuce - Seth said:In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :
The GLA45 is lovely to autocross and Mercedes calls that an SUV. Maybe not as good as the car version, but lifting it a couple of inches doesn't necessarily destroy it. Jeep makes a 700hp rocket of an SUV that is supposed to be fun on track if a bit expensive on consumables. If everything is an SUV maybe they'll make lowered sport SUV's?
I was just thinking about things like SCCA height/width restrictions. There’s going to be an Edge ST, which I’m sure will be entertaining. Maybe we’ll get a rowdy Ecosport ST too.
Sad news. Shocking really. Interesting times we are living in.
irish44j said:If true, would seem like a bad business plan. What if gas prices suddenly spike due to another middle east war (Iran JCOPA, anyone?) or something? Ford would be left with only the two cars certified for US sale (crash tests, etc)?
I find I don't often agree with you, but you are spot-on here.
Surprising, since of the "big three" only Ford survived the downturn of 2008. Still, it wouldn't be the first time a large corporation put short-term profitability ahead of a long-term strategic plan.
Snrub said:^ I think that's a good point about the Focus and Fiesta transmissions. From a marketing perspective, they've somewhat poisoned the well for those names.
Some of their SUVs have the same issue as well though. The Ford dealership that's part of the dealership family I work for says they have Escapes stacked up like cordwood waiting on transmissions.
mazdeuce - Seth said:No more short cars, just tall cars.
Maybe they'll make a sport truck again?
A Ranger ST is probably the one truck I would go buy brand new if they made such a thing.
Disappointing I suppose, but not surprising. I've been very interested in the FiST for quite a while, when I saw they were d/c it, I started setting my sights on a FoST. Now, I've lost interest altogether. Ford will probably not get my business because by the time I'll be buying something new, it appears they will no longer be manufacturing vehicles that interest me. But I doubt that they care.
Wow, I guess I should have guessed the reaction here.
You all know I work for Ford so you can add a pinch of salt or skepticism to everything I say, but this is my view.
First, yes I’m sad. I am, like everyone on here, a car guy and the new Focus and Fiesta are great cars. But this isn’t the end of the world and it isn’t short term thinking, it’s the exact opposite. The public just aren’t buying cars, they want CUV’s. Ford are still very well represented in the smaller vehicle marketplace with the EcoSport and Escape even before the Focus Active launches. Also everyone keeps saying ‘but what about another gas spike’ Trust me, Ford and every other automaker is always watching market trends and pricing around the world. Just because we are not going to be selling many cars over here, doesn’t mean to say we’re not making cars. Around the world there is the Figo/Ka, Fiesta, Focus, Escort and Fusion. These days they are all world platforms and powertrains. No, it’s not an overnight thing to certify, build and provide cars here in the future, but it would be quicker and easier than in prior decades.
I’ve met our CEO Jim Hackett on a number of occasions and even had dinner with him when he was a board member before he became CEO. I was delighted when Mark Fields was let go and Jim was brought in. I thought then and still think now he’s a far far better fit to lead a company like this. He understands the heritage of the company, the shifting market place and futuring. This move frees up capital to invest in the future of mobility and electrification globally with the shift (on a global scale far faster than the NA market) away from IC engines to electrified (pure, hybrid and plug in hybrid) vehicles and the sharing community. I know what’s coming both locally and globally through the end of the current cycle plan and what’s proposed after that. Personally as a shareholder and employee (if not a pure car guy) I’m happy with where we are heading. We should have started this years ago.
As a car guy I love things like the Ford GT. I love that it’s the best Supercar out there, I love it’s racing success, I love the way it’s redefining the sector. But, as a shareholder, I think it was the wrong decision to make that car. I know what didn’t happen as a result and I think it was the wrong move.
I’m happy with the direction of the company, even if I lament the lack of Fiesta and regular Focus as a car guy. TBH, I love the Focus Active, it’s my personal favorite of the new Focus line and I think it will be a great addition, really, don’t bemoan the lack of a base Focus, although I’ll let you shed a tear for the ST in the US market.
I bet Henry Ford is spinning in his grave.
spitfirebill said:I bet Henry Ford is spinning in his grave.
No, if he's got room in his coffin I bet his fist pumping. He vision was to put the world on wheels, that's what the company is doing and prepping to be able to do that into the future.
Well said, Ade. Although I no longer work in the auto industry, part of my job is to know what's going on there. Sadly, this is the right move, and I expect that others will follow before long.
What enthusiasts want is not what the general public wants. Never has been, never will be.
spitfirebill said:I bet Henry Ford is spinning in his grave.
Henry Ford's sedans had like 10 inches of ground clearance and were designed to be utilitarian. I'm not sure he'd mind the new direction. The Model T was kind of the original crossover wasn't it? Coupe, sedan, truck, wagon. Numerous bodystyles on a single, multipurpose chassis. They didn't raise the truck for increased ground clearance or lower the sedan for better driving dynamics. If you were a new visitor to this planet, and I showed you the following pictures, which contemporary vehicle looks more related to it's ancestor?
This is what happens when you don't buy new cars. The manufacturers quit making them.
Who would have guessed?
Isn't this what FCA is doing to the Chrysler side of the operation?
Maybe Lincoln will get a stretched version of the Mustang to build a sedan on?
Whatever.
Trans_Maro said:Meh, can't say I'm shocked.
To me, a car is completely useless.
I can't understand all these homeowners who own two cars and work on their house.
Every day I see folks shoving lumber, drywall, fertilizer and assorted crap into a car or minivan and thinking that this is how it should be.
If you have two vehicles, one should be a truck, period.
Couldn't disagree more. First I would venture to guess that >75% of homeowners don't do their own work. 2nd, a minivan can fit a full 4x8 sheet of plywood laying flat....some trucks cant even do that! Let alone CUVs or SUVs. 3rd, I'm laughing all the way to the bank when I load my little trailer (which costs me nothing to insure and peanuts for registration) up with drywall and tow it home with my corolla while the brodozers are getting 9 mpg and have a truck bed that's 5 feet in the air.
Trucks are for towing heavy loads, period.
With modern crossovers getting the same kind of fuel mileage as the sedans they were based on, I don't see gas prices negatively affecting their sales. And with electrification and hybridization it'll be even less a factor. Sedans are dying across the board, even the sales leader Camry is seeing declining sales year to year.
1988RedT2 said:Surprising, since of the "big three" only Ford survived the downturn of 2008. Still, it wouldn't be the first time a large corporation put short-term profitability ahead of a long-term strategic plan.
Ford made some decisions in the 2000's that put them in a position to be able to do that. Was it luck or good planning? Probably both. Good general planning with a lot of luck on the timing - IMO. This could work in a similar way. We're near the end of a very strong cycle and it's going to be ugly for the automakers when it ends.
NOHOME said:Being any other car company, I would be celebrating this admission of defeat from Ford.
By getting out of the car business, Ford has let out of the bag that they have a blind spot in their product innovation infrastructure; they unable to identify and respond to a market segment and respond with appropriate products that sell and make a profit.
That also tells me that they lack the same in-house infrastructure for truck development and that they are just milking a temporal reality where trucks seem to make sense. So in other words, they got lucky and are currently in the right place with the right product at the right time.
Anyone else here who has not live through a couple of economic downturns and fuel-price crisis where large vehicles are not affordable? How is your ford stock going to look next time that happens?
I agree with this too. People are not buying your cars because you don't have any cars that people want to buy, and yes, in a downturn people get in cheap mode and small fuel efficient cars become popular again. A cycle that's very predictable.
spitfirebill said:I bet Henry Ford is spinning in his grave.
No way, read your history, Ford was all about making money first and foremost.
How many here that are complaining about a lack of a Ford sedan have bought a new one in the last 5 years?
As I see it, every CUV and most smaller SUV are just tall cars. They can get the same mpg, can be made just as entry level. No they won't do as well at an autocross, but what is that .001% of all cars made are autocrossed. Ford is going where the money is, just smart business.
Let's look at current vehicle sales. This was earlier this month from the WSJ.
Look at the divergence in cars vs light trucks
Now lets have a more granular look at each segment. Again, see how all 'car' sectors are down and how SUV's and CUV's are climbing.
Finally look at the top selling products. Note what platforms are dominant and how few cars there are?
It's not so much that 'cars' are dying out, its more that CUV's are the 'cars' of today. Especially now we've had 30 years of increasing popularity in SUV's the average buyer wants to get back up on the same eye level as the majority of other vehicles on the road. Don't start down the 'physics' says low cars are safer BS as accident statistics show we're getting safer and safer all the time despite a trend upwards in CG height. Modern tires, suspension technology plus modern driver and safety aids mean we're accelerating vehicle safety at an amazing rate.
I just hope other manufactures don't decide to follow Ford's lead in this direction.
After nearly 40 yrs.as a Ford owner and at the same dealer and it is getting near to the time to be thinking of a new car. Sadly it probably won't be Ford.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
Sales trends are easy to look at, and I'm sure they're a part of the equation but if there were similar data for profitability I'd guess that the contrast might be even more stark. Automakers aren't going to tell us what profit they make per model, but that's really the key isn't it? In other words, Ford sold 13k Foci/month in 2017 vs 25k Escapes and that seems like a large difference but if they make 5% more profit on each Escape than what they make on a Focus, then the gap between them becomes a gulf. Not only are they selling more of them, but they're making more off of each one that they sell too. And then, you start to wonder why you're bothering making a Focus at all when you could be cranking out more Escapes.
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