Ford Triton V10 - even worth considering?

rslifkin wrote:

Blitzed306 wrote: the V10 never got cam phasers if my memory serves me

A little quick research confirms this. No cam phasers on the V10, which means definitely get the 3V and take the extra power (and lack of self-ejecting spark plugs).

Based on my experience with 5.4s, the later ones do have the plugs that break off in the head when you try to change them. So, basically, pick your poison. I'd go later myself, for the extra power. Plus, I'd rather have a hard time changing plugs than have one decide to dent the underside of the hood at an inopportune moment.

yupididit wrote: True v10 excursions are cheap compared to diesel ones which command a crazy price. Aren't the 5.4 expo and v10 excursion both around 10k towing?

The 5.4 is brutally underpowered in the excursion.

yupididit wrote: I Just looked. The v10 excursions are hilariously cheap here in southern California. I guess it's the gas prices. I have no need for such a vehicle but it would be awesome for our upcoming move to Texas. Could fit a lot of cargo and tow the wife's car the whole way! And the govt would be paying for the gas so there's a win! 4600 3900 4500 with 56k miles

Swhatimaying!

just for kicks I googled V10 on the local CL. Some interesting stuff came up, but no Excursions under $7k.

rslifkin wrote: A little quick research confirms this. No cam phasers on the V10, which means definitely get the 3V and take the extra power (and lack of self-ejecting spark plugs).

The pendulum swung the other way for the 3vs though. If someone already had one piece plugs put in, great. If not... I had one V8 where we got seven out without breaking. (We did a Run-Rite and then removed the plugs with the engine smoking hot) All of the rest of the 3v plugs I ever did or was involved with broke off in the head, and there was one that broke off in such a way that The Tool couldn't grab it, and we had to remove the intake manifold and valve cover, drive the plug chunk all the way into the chamber, then pull it out with a claw tool through an intake valve after sticking a valve compressor on it to open the valve as far as it could go.

So, sometimes it goes good, sometimes it doesn't go so good.

From a maintenance perspective, I'd rather deal with the 3v potential plug issues than the 2v. Putting inserts in the cylinder head sucks, and it seems like it's always in the most inaccessible hole. For the plugs breaking off, that only seems to happen on the original two piece plugs, and that's easy enough to deal with, the extractor set is probably under $300 by now.

rslifkin wrote: Aren't the cam phasers pretty much a "fix it once when it starts to tick and it'll be good for the life of the truck" kind of thing anyway?

Not exactly. They take sort of a lot of hot idle oil pressure to work correctly and if your truck doesn't have that strong of oil pressure when you replace them, it won't be long until you're hearing them again and this time it's a rebuild. I think Ford wants like 30psi at hot idle and there's a lot of higher miles engines that won't make that. There's tons of engines that can go near forever making 5psi of hot idle oil pressure but on a 3v Ford with phasers you're already screwed.

Pretty sure the V10s had a superceded PN for the studs for the exhaust manifolds. More than one I've seen had a bunch broken off flush into the head.

Vigo wrote:

rslifkin wrote: Aren't the cam phasers pretty much a "fix it once when it starts to tick and it'll be good for the life of the truck" kind of thing anyway?

Not exactly. They take sort of a lot of hot idle oil pressure to work correctly and if your truck doesn't have that strong of oil pressure when you replace them, it won't be long until you're hearing them again and this time it's a rebuild. I think Ford wants like 30psi at hot idle and there's a lot of higher miles engines that won't make that. There's tons of engines that can go near forever making 5psi of hot idle oil pressure but on a 3v Ford with phasers you're already screwed.

There's an awful lot of shops that won't allow a 5.4 through the door for engine work, unless it involves a Ford remain. Just too much risk with them, because if they won't hold 25psi at idle, the phasers rattle.

edizzle89 wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: The early ohc Ford's really only have two problems. They fire spark plugs out if they are not torqued properly, and they are not very powerful for the size. The troublesome ones have cam phasers.

i've just recently found that they make 'cam phaser lockouts' that do just that, lock the phaser into a single position. the lockouts themselves aren't that expensive but you have to get a programmer to tune for it being locked

I've seen those, but I wonder what sacrifice you are going to make? If the phasers are just there to pass emissions, who cares. (depending where you live). Improve idle quality? No big deal. Take away 100 foot pounds and 10 mpg, then that becomes a concern.

The real question is this: is a bit of cam phaser rattle harmful? If they rattle / tick a bit at idle and quiet down above idle, is it actually of concern or just annoying?

BoxheadTim wrote: Well, the feedback is better than I expected. @Wayslow, how frequent are the stops? IOW, how realistic is it to see over 10mpg when not towing?

Mine doesn't get driven unless it's carrying or towing something so real world MPG is hard to state. I can tell you that while towing a fully loaded three horse gooseneck trailer down to Lexington Ky we achieved an average of just under 9mpg. My best mileage was just over 12mpg with a small enclosed utility trailer attached. My truck is a 2006 F360 super cab short bed with 4wd. I've had to convert everything from litres/100km to mpg then I remembered I was using imperial gallons so I converted again. Some accuracy may have been lost in translation. I think others have already stated to look for a 2005 or newer truck for the improved front end. This will also ensure you get the three valve engine which has higher horsepower and torque. The transmission is also every bit as nice as the Allison, in my experience.

FWIW, every Mod motor I've seen with low oil pressure had wiped-out cam journals. Cause, or effect, I couldn't say, but at that point you're replacing the heads, and why put heads on a bottom end of questionable integrity?

So I can completely understand why some shops refuse to do oil pressure dependent internal work on Mod motors.

But sounds like there is a option of setting the cam phasers and forgetting about it?

I realize we've kinda high jacked this thread by now.

My wife's Navigator has the 32V 5.4 but sooner or later I'm gonna be dealing with one of these motors...

32v is a different animal from the 24v. Completely different top end.

If the v10 doesnt have cam phasers then....?

Knurled wrote: 32v is a different animal from the 24v. Completely different top end.

I'm saying sooner or later I'm going to have to deal with one of these 3V motors.

I'm aware the 32V doesn't have this issue. But I assume the 32V won't run forever.

EDIT: I see somebody already posted a solution. $750 but at least its a permanent fix.

MattW wrote:

Knurled wrote: 32v is a different animal from the 24v. Completely different top end.

I'm saying sooner or later I'm going to have to deal with one of these 3V motors. I'm aware the 32V doesn't have this issue. But I assume the 32V won't run forever. EDIT: I see somebody already posted a solution. $750 but at least its a permanent fix.

Actually, I think the proper permanent fix is to change the oil about twice as often as the manufacturer suggests, right from new, and consider Mobil 1 to be the bottom rung of quality.

I know of people who have even gotten reasonable life out of GM 3.6 engines by changing the oil now and then...

In actual v10 related content, the first ford V10 i ever drove was a lifted crew cab 4wd with 39" tires that i put a transmission in. Even with those tires it was totally decent in the power department when i expected it to totally suck. The v10 is the only mod motor i'm remotely tempted to mess with. It seems to perform more than 25% better than a 5.4 even though it's only 25% bigger.

Streetwiseguy wrote: Actually, I think the proper permanent fix is to change the oil about twice as often as the manufacturer suggests, right from new, and consider Mobil 1 to be the bottom rung of quality.

But the Internet said that 3000mi oil changes are from the days when motor oil was barely-refined crude and cars didn't have PCV systems or feedback fuel control. Modern cars can go forever on the same oil. (Study it out!)

I know of people who have even gotten reasonable life out of GM 3.6 engines by changing the oil now and then...

Highest I have seen is 200k... on original chains that The Internet says are only good for 30k.

Latest thing that I'm seeing is that the Honda K24s don't take to long OCIs. The weeny little 1/4" pitch (well, "6.35mm" pitch) chain doesn't cotton to that.

I love my 2010 F350 V10 4x4 with 4:10 and 11,000GVWR. 99% of its use is hauling a trailer but i do get around 14 -14.5 unloaded and 10.-11.5 loaded with a/c on. It has got only 43,000 on it, its has one busted exhaust manifold stud, i have the metric screw and tool S.S. stud kit ready to put in but haven't gotten to it yet. When we were shopping i wanted the desil untill i ran the pay back numbers and then looked at the maintenance cost and said Ah...No we'll take the v10

16 @ 80 is really really good. You're ahead of my 7.3.

Donebrokeit wrote: I have a 03 F350 2WD with 160k miles, the power train has been very good to me with no major issue. You will need to check for rust, broken exhaust studs ,and pull the plugs (I replaced mine) and toque them as I have seen more than one get ejected. My truck gets about 16mpg @80 mph and around town about 9mpg, 10mpg towing (in PA) a 20 foot enclosed trailer @ 65 mph with no issue. Your needs sound a lot like mine, need a truck to tow and do a few "truck" jobs a year and sits the rest of the time. This is why I bought a V10, low(er) buy in with less issue compared to the diesels. Happy hunting.

I think that is due to being 2wd, most of these trucks are 4wd.

Carro Atrezzi wrote: 16 @ 80 is really really good. You're ahead of my 7.3.

Donebrokeit wrote: I have a 03 F350 2WD with 160k miles, the power train has been very good to me with no major issue. You will need to check for rust, broken exhaust studs ,and pull the plugs (I replaced mine) and toque them as I have seen more than one get ejected. My truck gets about 16mpg @80 mph and around town about 9mpg, 10mpg towing (in PA) a 20 foot enclosed trailer @ 65 mph with no issue. Your needs sound a lot like mine, need a truck to tow and do a few "truck" jobs a year and sits the rest of the time. This is why I bought a V10, low(er) buy in with less issue compared to the diesels. Happy hunting.

I learned to drive in my moms v10 excursion, it was a great first car to learn how to park with! We had no issues other then the computer went out we lost cruse control at the same time at about 210,000k miles. Sold it with 225,000k it was mainly used to haul us kids around town then hitch up a boat and tow 13 hours down to Florida every summer. I would own another in a heartbeat!.

My dad got a f250 5.4 to replace it with 116,000 miles on it and its ok... Exhaust manifolds leak even after replacing the gaskets and the coil packs started going out so it ran like a dog for a while. Just last week towed a boat to Florida and I missed the v10. Its no tow rig that is for sure. Maybe its better in the F150 but it just lacks the torque that it needs in that large of a truck.

I worked at a Ford dealer from 97-07. The v10's saw very little problems. Their pretty popular in RV applications. They don't get the best fuel mileage. If you're comparing between it and a diesel, the diesel is inherently going to be more money to maintain in my opinion.

In reply to Skervey:

The 5.4 is definitely better in an F-150, but towing more than 5 - 7k lbs with one gets sluggish.