With George now official at Mercedes, I'm really curious how the team dynamic will be going forward. I mean, Bottas was basically custom built in a lab for what Mercedes needed to win both the constructors and drivers championships. Extremely quick to reliably outrun nearly all competitors and stay near the front for maximum strategy opportunities, yet not quick enough to actually pose a threat to Lewis. He also was a bit of a pushover and would do what was needed as wingman when the infamous "Valtteri this is James" call would come in. I mean how many drivers actually check all those boxes? Just look how much difficulty it has been for RB to find a second driver that is fast enough to stay in the top 4 but accept second driver status.
I think George will be a different animal, he is fast enough to actually push/beat Lewis on a more regular basis. Should be interesting to see how the team, and Lewis, handles that.
In reply to BrewCity20 :
But, the time has come for things to change at Merc. Lewis is still fast, still motivated, but for how much longer? George will push him without being a Nico-like douche, and if he has the talent, he will continue the Mercedes train into the foreseeable future when Lewis either slows down or retires, which is bound to happen in the next few years.
Streetwiseguy said:
In reply to BrewCity20 :
But, the time has come for things to change at Merc. Lewis is still fast, still motivated, but for how much longer? George will push him without being a Nico-like douche, and if he has the talent, he will continue the Mercedes train into the foreseeable future when Lewis either slows down or retires, which is bound to happen in the next few years.
It's pretty rare for F1 drivers to be successful at much more than 38/39. Looking at this list of the 20 oldest F1 drivers to win a race there are only 2 drivers on there from the last 30 years, Mansell (41 years 3 months) and Kimi (39 years 0 months): http://www.mostlyf1.com/statistics/all-time-stats/driver-stats/youngest-oldest/oldest-grand-prix-winners/
Hamilton is 36 and a half right now, so statistically he's unlikely to have much more than 2-3 years left in him as a front-running championship contender. Russell is the future for Mercedes, and having him overlap with Hamilton by a year or two gives a chance for him to learn from the current champ.
In reply to alfadriver :
I like the Andretti scenario and them bringing in Audi/VW/ Porsche group, another team with a MERC engine just bores me especially how political Toto Wolf is in F1.
I'm hoping we'll see Lewis step up his game again with George as a teammate. He does respond well to pressure in the post-Nico era, and Bottas pushed him pretty well. Until Max started to push harder and the two of them left the rest of the pack behind - including Bottas.
It's going to be a fun couple of years before Lewis retires, I think. If Toto can keep the team dynamic solid I think Mercedes is in a very good place.
I think Russel has shown pretty clearly that he is a team player as well but we will see how that changes when the goal goes from just getting points here and there to the real possibility of winning at every GP provided the 2022 car isn't a let down.
I'm kinda thinking that if Lewis seals up his 8th this year he steps back to a more statesman/leadership role. If that happens, George would be a great driver to help develop while also getting the data for the new package.
-Rob
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:
Streetwiseguy said:
In reply to BrewCity20 :
But, the time has come for things to change at Merc. Lewis is still fast, still motivated, but for how much longer? George will push him without being a Nico-like douche, and if he has the talent, he will continue the Mercedes train into the foreseeable future when Lewis either slows down or retires, which is bound to happen in the next few years.
It's pretty rare for F1 drivers to be successful at much more than 38/39. Looking at this list of the 20 oldest F1 drivers to win a race there are only 2 drivers on there from the last 30 years, Mansell (41 years 3 months) and Kimi (39 years 0 months): http://www.mostlyf1.com/statistics/all-time-stats/driver-stats/youngest-oldest/oldest-grand-prix-winners/
Hamilton is 36 and a half right now, so statistically he's unlikely to have much more than 2-3 years left in him as a front-running championship contender. Russell is the future for Mercedes, and having him overlap with Hamilton by a year or two gives a chance for him to learn from the current champ.
You are certainly correct about the age thing, but Lewis has a lot more speed to lose due to his advancing age than most people...
Alright so we just have 1 maybe two seats to fill for next year.
Russell will need some coaching to not put his foot in his mouth over at MB. Given his time with Williams though, I think it likely he will say many uncool things over his first season there. I expect there to be some friction with Lewis but should smooth out.
Albon!!!!! I am so happy he is back on the grid. I think the RBR experience will help him over at Williams. Williams made the right choice. If Latifi doesn't work out in 2022 then there is a seat for deVries in 2023.
In reply to Advan046 :
It does seem like a good choice as far as having some experience and showing his skill previously. I always wonder how much the drivers are influenced by who brought them up. Like GR has always been a "Mercedes" driver and Schumacher is a "Ferrari" driver. So if Albon is a "Red Bull" driver what does he bring to a "Mercedes" team? Does Mercedes give Williams information or tactics advice that they will now withhold so they aren't giving it to a "Red Bull" driver? I just don't know how the behind the scenes part of F1 works like that. Like NASCAR has these supported teams, they seem to have full access to information from the team they buy cars and motors from.
The parent teams make quite an investment in a driver, so they want to keep them "in the family". Both to recoup their investment of time and money in the junior but also to keep anyone else from getting their hands on someone who has been identified as a rising star.
How many manufacturer groups has Ricciardo driven for now? I guess he left Red Bull for Renault at the same time RB ditched the engines, so only two.
It seems that some believe Albon's landing at Williams may be a harbinger of a new engine supplier (VW group) soon entering F1...
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hughes-albon-deal-hints-at-mercedes-red-bull-f1-power-shift/
-chris r.
In reply to intrepid :
Yes the engine switch rumor comes up now and then but I don't think the auto industry is in a state for VW or others to jump into F1 but we will see.
I don't see RBR as the types to actually want any engine customers but then they have never been in the engine making business.
Williams have a good link to MB and I don't see why they would leave now that they are finally getting their chassis together.
Just a reminder, this is one of the heat races to qualify for Sunday, so qualifying for Saturday's sprint race is tomorrow.
The gong show that is qualifying at Monza has started.
The Bottas that goes for the fastest lap and now has the pole for Monza and it probably is going to take every risk to win. I wish wasn't missing the past 4 years.
trigun7469 said:
The Bottas that goes for the fastest lap and now has the pole for Monza and it probably is going to take every risk to win. I wish wasn't missing the past 4 years.
He may be starting from pole for the sprint race, but he's starting at the back on Sunday regardless what happens tomorrow. He had an entire powertrain change that becomes a big penalty.
Happy for Bottas getting the pole for the sprint race tomorrow. Hope he ignores any team orders that prevent him from winning.
Sprint race goes at 10:30 am est time.
In the F2 race it seemed liked the guys on the right were able to hook up and get the line into T1 so that should be good for Lewis.
After the second sprint race for F1, I have the same opinion of it- meh. Other than the start, there was zero drama in the race at all. Ok- there was a little as Perez got his spot back, but other than that, the "race" was pretty bad for a track like Monza. Lacks the drama of how Q3 develops. It puts the drama of qualifying and puts it in the hands of what makes F1 suck- lack of passing due to aero issues.
Sucks for Hamilton that he got such a terrible start- but even with the massive speed advantage that Mercedes had, nada in terms of movement.
Good for Maclaren to get a front row start thanks to Bottas moving to the end of the grid.
Yeah, that was a waste. It doubles the chance of a bad start affecting the entire race - with the skill of these guys, if you don't have a bad start you have a normal one. On a track where passing isn't really much of an option, there's no chance to get those lost places back again. The "sprint" was an 18 lap parade with nothing interesting going on. If it hadn't been for the sprint, we'd have the championship contenders lining up side by side at the front of the grid for a shootout. That would have been fun to watch for a lap or two at least.
Instead, we have a couple of McLarens in the way. They'll hold up Hamilton long enough that Max will scamper off into the distance and put the car on cruise control with just enough of a lead to keep anyone else at bay. Podium will be Max, Lewis and probably Norris. Something unlucky will happen to poor Ricciardo.
I was impressed about how little chaos there was in that first chicane, I thought Hamilton was going to get hit from four sides at once.
Keith Tanner said:
Yeah, that was a waste. It doubles the chance of a bad start affecting the entire race - with the skill of these guys, if you don't have a bad start you have a normal one. On a track where passing isn't really much of an option, there's no chance to get those lost places back again. The "sprint" was an 18 lap parade with nothing interesting going on. If it hadn't been for the sprint, we'd have the championship contenders lining up side by side at the front of the grid for a shootout. That would have been fun to watch for a lap or two at least.
Instead, we have a couple of McLarens in the way. They'll hold up Hamilton long enough that Max will scamper off into the distance and put the car on cruise control with just enough of a lead to keep anyone else at bay. Podium will be Max, Lewis and probably Norris. Something unlucky will happen to poor Ricciardo.
I agree the sprint was ho-hum here.
Usually, though, Monza is a race where you can pass because of the fast corner (parabolica or whatever they renamed it) leading into a long straight leading into a tight corner. Didn't happen today, obviously. I suspect a lot of people were playing conservative in order not to risk losing places.
I wonder if the drop down to starting 5th (or 4th after Bottas) will push Mercedes into doing an engine change on Hamilton's car too. Supposedly both he and Verstappen are going to need one before the end of the year and Monza is generally considered one of the best places to do it (because of the ability to pass).
I have been disappointed with the sprint races. They seem to be little more than a parade. If that's what the race looks like tomorrow that stinks.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
If they did that, Lewis would start behind Bottas. Watching the difference in those two working through the field would be entertaining, and you know Bottas would be able to hold up another car for once :)
Keith Tanner said:
If they did that, Lewis would start behind Bottas. Watching the difference in those two working through the field would be entertaining, and you know Bottas would be able to hold up another car for once :)
He would, but I suspect he wouldn't stay behind Bottas for long. Team orders would come into play and if Bottas ignores them, well... there's nothing that says they can't bring Russell into that seat half a season early.
