Having some time in a car with aero I can tell you that if the balance is off, by even a small amount, it is possible to trash a set of tires in about a lap and a half.
I'm totally ambivalent about Stroll but when he fell off like a stone I turned to my son and said something's wrong with the car. With all the people going off track something could have easily impacted the car.......so the explanation is at least plausible.
Sadly Perez is yet another driver on the long list of talented F1 drivers who got shafted by the way F1 works. I hope he lands somewhere.
Speaking of overrated drivers, Max Verstappen in the wet. Remember when he went off the track 3 times on his way from the pits to the grid and damaged the car earlier this year in the wet? Look at his performance yesterday, he should have won (or second) if we was just a bit more patient, instead he was sixth and was lucky to finish (I thought Albon beat him but that didn't happen in the end lol).
It's fun having a villain to cheer against, for me it is Max, for Alfadriver it is Stroll. Just adds to the excitement when they do good/bad and helps keep it interesting. Those feelings can change too, I warmed up to Schumacher over the years after he tried to punt Villeneuve in 97 but that takes time and needs to be earned.
Well that kid did outrun active drivers that have 13 WDC over 1 lap on a track nobody was having much luck keeping the car on.
Then under the pressure of a 1st time pole start and slick track start nailed it and lead nearly half the race.
I'm tired of the taste of my plastic spoon too but I don't think he is only as good as his dads bank account.
Tom1200 said:
Having some time in a car with aero I can tell you that if the balance is off, by even a small amount, it is possible to trash a set of tires in about a lap and a half.
I'm totally ambivalent about Stroll but when he fell off like a stone I turned to my son and said something's wrong with the car. With all the people going off track something could have easily impacted the car.......so the explanation is at least plausible.
Sadly Perez is yet another driver on the long list of talented F1 drivers who got shafted by the way F1 works. I hope he lands somewhere.
If the aero was that far off, then he would not have 1) qualified that well and 2) drove away that far. He had a pitstop lead back to Vettel at one point. Which was all but the top 3? Which is why I think he drove the tires off 3 times instead of a bad aero set up.
kevlarcorolla said:
Well that kid did outrun active drivers that have 13 WDC over 1 lap on a track nobody was having much luck keeping the car on.
Then under the pressure of a 1st time pole start and slick track start nailed it and lead nearly half the race.
I'm tired of the taste of my plastic spoon too but I don't think he is only as good as his dads bank account.
And that resulted in an 8th place finish? Ok.
Having the race in your pocket like that should have resulted in at least a podium.
Forgive me for thinking that he's over rated.
adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:
Speaking of overrated drivers, Max Verstappen in the wet. Remember when he went off the track 3 times on his way from the pits to the grid and damaged the car earlier this year in the wet? Look at his performance yesterday, he should have won (or second) if we was just a bit more patient, instead he was sixth and was lucky to finish (I thought Albon beat him but that didn't happen in the end lol).
It's fun having a villain to cheer against, for me it is Max, for Alfadriver it is Stroll. Just adds to the excitement when they do good/bad and helps keep it interesting. Those feelings can change too, I warmed up to Schumacher over the years after he tried to punt Villeneuve in 97 but that takes time and needs to be earned.
LOL, I guess I am being pretty harsh on him. I don't see him as a villain, but I also don't get the accolades he gets, when he takes a pole position and a strong start and turn that into an 8th place finish.
And while I'm not much a fan of Max, and I also kind of condemned him to not be as good as LeClerc, I also wonder if that drive also exposed how incredibly sensitive the Red Bull is, aerodynamically. Everyone bashes on Albon, but I really wonder if it's just the car.
In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
I'm not a Stroll fan despite us sharing a country of origin,I just see Lance and Lewis receiving the same negative commentary over and over....one for being in the right car and the other for being in the right family.
And it sounds like the front wing was damaged before the 2nd set went on not while in quali which does seem to jive with how the race went.
Why the team saw a downforce loss,quickly fragged tires and didn't swap the wing on the 3rd stop isn't really the drivers fault.
Is it possible that Lance got pole and did a great start to the race because his car was set up for a wetter track ? And then when it started to dry out he fell back? This would explain Hamilton, if he set his car up on Saturday for a dryer track on race day, he qualified poor, started slow and took off when the track started to dry out.
I don't know if a little extra ride height, softer springs, different down force or ?? they used to be able to change these things before the parc ferme rules.
either way, we were robbed when it didn't rain on the last lap!
In reply to kevlarcorolla :
At least Lewis won races. And he learned from his mistakes. Time will tell if Lance will ever learn anything.
As for his wing, how did it get damaged? He never lost so much time at once that would suggest that he ran off the track far enough to break a wing on something. If it broke on it's own, sure- it's not his fault. If it broke because he drove off the track, or ran into someone else, well....
My real point for Lance is that the lessons to learn from Lewis are obvious enough for a casual fan to know them- like managing the race from the front to manage the tire wear. It's not like that's a secret. And in this era, the key thing that Mercedes does to consistently win is manage the tires.
In reply to Rusnak_322 :
Perez had essentially the same car, and finished 2nd. It was close, sure- but it was still 2nd.
In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
Got it,your not looking for any sunshine around Stroll
Lewis and Sergio were the only guys that got the tires right. Lewis talked about how finding exactly the right temp, and then keeping them there was, in his opinion, far more important than the tread depth on the inters. It took him the better part of 30 laps to figure it out, and once he did, well, we all saw what happened. IIRC, just about everyone who came for fresh inters at mid- race wound up getting a third set. Seb, that patient old German, didn't run through his, but pretty much all the other cars ruined them.
One of the guys on the F1 post race show talked about the Slicktermediate tire they use endurance racing- Has some tread, but has a much lower temp range than proper slicks. Lewis built his own... I also was a bit amused when he referred to losing a championship on a slick pit entrance a decade and a bit ago. Can't say I blame him for staying out. He was watching the cloud and mathing out the chance of rain.
Race management is one of his many skills.
Even with the winner, this was absolutely my favorite race to watch this year. Finally the knife edge they are always driving on was visible. I can only hope that races with far less down force become the norm so we can actually see the slides, slips, and corrections the drivers are making.
In reply to 759NRNG (Forum Partidario) :
Streetwiseguy said:
Race management is one of his many skills.
Race management is a skill he's learned fairly recently in his career, Hamilton has always been fast but there was a point where burning up tires quickly was one of his weaknesses. He's applied himself and fixed that.
I don't have much opinion about Stroll. Yes, his dad bought a team to get him a drive, but he seems to have enough skill to make a decent go of it. This isn't Yuji Ide we're talking about. I don't buy into media presentations of "this guy is a whiner" -- none of the fans know these drivers personally so that stuff all comes from what the media chooses to present. If you present stuff out of context you can make anyone look like anything you want.
Aero damage to the car is certainly a plausible explanation for why his tire wear was so much worse than Perez's.
In reply to johndej :
I'd like to sit and stare at the dirt tails from all the cars for a glimps at how the air moves.
In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
And the damaged occurred to the front wing exactly when? The article I read didn't say when it happened but spoke of a noticeable lack of front downforce on the telemetry. It's entirely possible it happened on the in lap or the pit stop itself. Regardless of exactly when it happened it explains the tumble down the order.
We're a Hamilton house and so we were quite pleased with the result.
Tom1200 said:
And the damaged occurred to the front wing exactly when? The article I read didn't say when it happened but spoke of a noticeable lack of front downforce on the telemetry. It's entirely possible it happened on the in lap or the pit stop itself. Regardless of exactly when it happened it explains the tumble down the order.
Racing Point said it was lap 17, which was about 20 laps before he came in for the second set of intermediates. Just checked the video of the race and they're covering Perez/Verstappen at that point (that's the lap where Verstappen spins), but they do flash up a brief "yellow flag in sector 1" while the other two are on the S/F straight, so it's possible that Stroll went off and damaged it on a curb then.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:
Tom1200 said:
And the damaged occurred to the front wing exactly when? The article I read didn't say when it happened but spoke of a noticeable lack of front downforce on the telemetry. It's entirely possible it happened on the in lap or the pit stop itself. Regardless of exactly when it happened it explains the tumble down the order.
Racing Point said it was lap 17, which was about 20 laps before he came in for the second set of intermediates. Just checked the video of the race and they're covering Perez/Verstappen at that point (that's the lap where Verstappen spins), but they do flash up a brief "yellow flag in sector 1" while the other two are on the S/F straight, so it's possible that Stroll went off and damaged it on a curb then.
I have the f1tv pass thing, I just watched all of Stroll's lap 16/17/18 no offs during them. Nothing really happens at all during those laps except him asking for how his pace was. lol, and also the engineer getting after him for cooling his tires.
Tough race weekend for Max. Clearly Red Bull does not know how to manage drivers careers or the psyches. You have to wonder if Max has the capacity to take a 2021 Mercedes Domination, that is clearly on the table.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
Was that when he switched to the first set of intermediates?
Tom1200 said:
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
Was that when he switched to the first set of intermediates?
No, Stroll went onto intermediates on lap 10. Lap 17 is around the point where he has the biggest gap over Perez (up to almost 10 seconds).
trigun7469 said:
Tough race weekend for Max. Clearly Red Bull does not know how to manage drivers careers or the psyches. You have to wonder if Max has the capacity to take a 2021 Mercedes Domination, that is clearly on the table.
Max has been told since he started that he is the second coming. I doubt anyone has ever tried to instill a sense of season-long strategy in him. It's always been "you are so aggressive it's awesome!". I think he would benefit quite a bit from working for a different team. He's got the raw speed, he just doesn't have the discipline and he'll never get it at RB. It's always surprising to see how few wins he actually has given his following and reputation.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Agreed,while following Vettel it was very clear how smooth Vettel was and how much Max was overdriving.
Getting impatient waiting for the WDC he expects no doubt.
Keith Tanner said:
Max has been told since he started that he is the second coming. I doubt anyone has ever tried to instill a sense of season-long strategy in him. It's always been "you are so aggressive it's awesome!". I think he would benefit quite a bit from working for a different team. He's got the raw speed, he just doesn't have the discipline and he'll never get it at RB. It's always surprising to see how few wins he actually has given his following and reputation.
People like the drama?
To be fair though, he's won more races since he showed up than anyone not driving a Mercedes or a Ferrari with an illegal engine.
