Heavier than a GD loaded WRX... which the last one made is already 8 years old. What about a GR?
And for the record, the 3.8 has 348hp. Having driven my buddies, I wouldn't want one as a sports car, but an everyday, year round daily driver that is fun? Hell yea!
Aeromoto wrote: Well the car obviously isn't selling at it's current price
The twins are selling better than the 370z. Also I can find Genesis coupes all day for under 20k. Heavy? Yes; but, the 3.8s are similar to a 4th gen F-body which weighed around 3300-3400 and 305-325*hp. I'd rock one. I'd also rock a 370z, I have a family so it's not that practical. Same thing that pushed me away from a Cayman.
People are going to complain about something they can't have and find every reason to bash the car because of it. No I don't believe it's worth 27k; but, hey I see more of them than I do WRX/STIs, Civic Si, etc.
HiTempguy wrote: Heavier than a GD loaded WRX... which the last one made is already 8 years old. What about a GR? And for the record, the 3.8 has 348hp. Having driven my buddies, I wouldn't want one as a sports car, but an everyday, year round daily driver that is fun? Hell yea!
My 09 WRX Premium tips the scales at 3225 lbs, and that's with upgraded aftermarket speakers/amps and a full-size spare and stainless SPT exhaust. I think the factory weight is like 3180 for the non-premium.
The examples of the FRS I see at the dealerships around here (Disney area)when I go in to get the oil changed in my wife's Toyota are all stickered around $30-31K. I like the car, but sorry, if I'm going to get in that kind of debt for 5 years, why not spend a few more thousand and get the 435hp 2015 Mustang GT. Make the FRS cheaper, I'd consider it, but not when it's within grenade shrapnel proximity of something with 435hp.
Aeromoto wrote: The examples of the FRS I see at the dealerships around here (Disney area)when I go in to get the oil changed in my wife's Toyota are all stickered around $30-31K. I like the car, but sorry, if I'm going to get in that kind of debt for 5 years, why not spend a few more thousand and get the 435hp 2015 Mustang GT. Make the FRS cheaper, I'd consider it, but not when it's within grenade shrapnel proximity of something with 435hp.
I'm just having a hard time figuring out why it's so much. Subaru is selling it for 2-4k more than a new WRX, which has more motor, more body, more interior, and AWD. I can't see how the BRZ couldn't be priced substantially lower than a WRX. Everything about it suggests that it would have a far lower production cost.
irish44j wrote:Aeromoto wrote: The examples of the FRS I see at the dealerships around here (Disney area)when I go in to get the oil changed in my wife's Toyota are all stickered around $30-31K. I like the car, but sorry, if I'm going to get in that kind of debt for 5 years, why not spend a few more thousand and get the 435hp 2015 Mustang GT. Make the FRS cheaper, I'd consider it, but not when it's within grenade shrapnel proximity of something with 435hp.I'm just having a hard time figuring out why it's so much. Subaru is selling it for 2-4k more than a new WRX, which has more motor, more body, more interior, and AWD. I can't see how the BRZ couldn't be priced substantially lower than a WRX. Everything about it suggests that it would have a far lower production cost.
Totally agree with you in theory the WRX should cost more, it has more of everything, therefore it should be priced higher. But because it's based on an impreza whose chassis is used across so many different vehicles so development costs can be spread across the entire line
The BRZ on the otherhand is a dedicated chassis, unique development and low volumes = high cost.
irish44j wrote:Aeromoto wrote: The examples of the FRS I see at the dealerships around here (Disney area)when I go in to get the oil changed in my wife's Toyota are all stickered around $30-31K. I like the car, but sorry, if I'm going to get in that kind of debt for 5 years, why not spend a few more thousand and get the 435hp 2015 Mustang GT. Make the FRS cheaper, I'd consider it, but not when it's within grenade shrapnel proximity of something with 435hp.I'm just having a hard time figuring out why it's so much. Subaru is selling it for 2-4k more than a new WRX, which has more motor, more body, more interior, and AWD. I can't see how the BRZ couldn't be priced substantially lower than a WRX. Everything about it suggests that it would have a far lower production cost.
Go to the Subaru web site, the base trim model BRZ is $25,695. The base trim model WRX is $26,295.
I bought a '15 Limited, no extras. MSRP $27,695. I paid $26,500 for mine.
Aeromoto wrote: The examples of the FRS I see at the dealerships around here (Disney area)when I go in to get the oil changed in my wife's Toyota are all stickered around $30-31K. I like the car, but sorry, if I'm going to get in that kind of debt for 5 years, why not spend a few more thousand and get the 435hp 2015 Mustang GT. Make the FRS cheaper, I'd consider it, but not when it's within grenade shrapnel proximity of something with 435hp.
I understand this thought process completely. But as someone who owned a Coyote mustang, the running costs are quite insane compared to something like a Miata or BRZ.
It's a bummer to see this happen. The twins have grown on me a lot since the introduction, and unless something changes, it looks like they may soon disappear into the ether.
But it needs to be said - Due to the increasing performance capabilities of vehicles that offer very high performance, such as the WRX, the 3 series, and even the Tesla and some SUVs, a 2-seat car that's longer than a Scion IQ is a very specialized market. It isn't like the 50s where American cars were uniformly porky and ill-handling, and a European sports car was a revelation. At this point, a person has to appreciate the unique dynamics and styling of a sports car enough to overlook the many utilitarian shortcomings of it, as well as the fact that you're more likely to be taken out by a SUV who can't see you, and who may have a faster vehicle(in a straight line, at least)! Edit - I know that in theory the car is a 4-seater, but c'mon, who are they trying to fool with those little things?
Insurance companies?
mr2peak wrote: Insurance companies?
Insurance on my BRZ is more expensive than my '13 GT Mustang was. Not a whole lot, but still more expensive.
In reply to z31maniac:
26,500 = me buying a '15 EB mustang. Seriously, the new mustang is that much better than the generation you owned.
Better on consumables? Believe that was the reason he got rid of his, not because it sucked.
yamaha wrote: In reply to z31maniac: 26,500 = me buying a '15 EB mustang. Seriously, the new mustang is that much better than the generation you owned.
Possibly, I suspect it's more refinement than redefined. But I ditched it because of consumable cost as we've gone over before. $400 each stock tires, $250+ for front brake pads (not including rotors), $150 oil changes, terrible fuel economy (not like I bought a muscle car for fuel economy), but still.
I think all 60,000 are destined to show up at our CFR autocrosses. Check out the CS and STX class results:
http://www.cfrsolo2.com/2014/11-23-2014geneva_fin.htm
Since this thread started I've been randomly looking at used twin prices quoted by dealers. It appears most 2013s are priced about $19.5K and 2014s are $20K to $21K in the dealer ads. So I can't say that's terrible early depreciation, assuming you're only paying $27K +/-. But if you're paying in the $30K+ plus area new, that 1st year is IMO a big time bitch!
In reply to z31maniac:
Of course the tires will be more expensive(they're bigger/wider, comes with the territory), but what in the name of berkeley caused you to have $150 oil changes? Even dry sump e46 m3s aren't that expensive to have done. The EB mustang fixed the fuel economy thing as well. Brakes, idk what to tell you. I'll assume you had the PP with the monster brembo's.
Rupert wrote: Since this thread started I've been randomly looking at used twin prices quoted by dealers. It appears most 2013s are priced about $19.5K and 2014s are $20K to $21K in the dealer ads. So I can't say that's terrible early depreciation, assuming you're only paying $27K +/-. But if you're paying in the $30K+ plus area new, that 1st year is IMO a big time bitch!
And that's what dealers are asking for used, they probably have between 12-15k in those. 
In reply to yamaha:Yes that's about what I guessed.
Here's a BRZ with an excess of power with a motor smaller and lighter than stock...
Just a LITTLE too expensive... LOL
That synergy v8 is pretty cool, and that's an impressive build for sure. Though I can't help thinking that the stock engine in the car with a nice turbo setup could probably make similar numbers for a lot less cash. IDK.
I'm in the boat that likes the BRZ, and that thinks it needs more power, but would be pretty happy with "stock WRX" power and don't feel it needs any more than that.
Does anyone else wonder why Hyundai doesn't separate sales numbers for the Genesis and the Coupe? It would be another good car to compare to the FRS/BRZ with sales. One point I haven't seen yet is that in a way, the twins are their own class, at least in price, weight, and power in the new car market. The Mustang, 370Z, Camaro, Genesis Coupe aren't small drivers cars like the twins are. I also think that the twins are one of the best looking cars made today.
Mr_Clutch42 wrote: Does anyone else wonder why Hyundai doesn't separate sales numbers for the Genesis and the Coupe? It would be another good car to compare to the FRS/BRZ with sales. One point I haven't seen yet is that in a way, the twins are their own class, at least in price, weight, and power in the new car market. The Mustang, 370Z, Camaro, Genesis Coupe aren't small drivers cars like the twins are. I also think that the twins are one of the best looking cars made today.
I know they're not verts, but I would think that the BRZ/FRS would still fall in the same cross-shopping category as the Miata. I know several people who bought Miatas for the chassis, mileage, or "small-ness" and who rarely or never put the top down and/or have hardtops and don't really care that it's a vert.
Sure, you have plenty of people who buy the Miata for general top-down cruising, but I'd think it's still the closest "comparable" car to the twins - even if not technically in the same category.
As to the Genesis, I don't know why they would even combine the sales numbers. The Genesis coupe isn't like it's just the Sedan with two doors. I guess they share a chassis and some drivetrain, but the similarities seem to stop there for the most part.
FWIW, I see BRZ/FRS far more often in daily driving than I see Genesis coupes. Could be that most of my driving is during commuting hours, though, and the twins are a much more economical commuter car.
Vracer111 wrote: Here's a BRZ with an excess of power with a motor smaller and lighter than stock... JUN BRZ Just a LITTLE too expensive... LOL
I'm not sure I'd call that excess. That seems about perfect. Too perfect.
irish44j wrote:Mr_Clutch42 wrote: Does anyone else wonder why Hyundai doesn't separate sales numbers for the Genesis and the Coupe? It would be another good car to compare to the FRS/BRZ with sales. One point I haven't seen yet is that in a way, the twins are their own class, at least in price, weight, and power in the new car market. The Mustang, 370Z, Camaro, Genesis Coupe aren't small drivers cars like the twins are. I also think that the twins are one of the best looking cars made today.I know they're not verts, but I would think that the BRZ/FRS would still fall in the same cross-shopping category as the Miata. I know several people who bought Miatas for the chassis, mileage, or "small-ness" and who rarely or never put the top down and/or have hardtops and don't really care that it's a vert. Sure, you have plenty of people who buy the Miata for general top-down cruising, but I'd think it's still the closest "comparable" car to the twins - even if not technically in the same category. As to the Genesis, I don't know why they would even combine the sales numbers. The Genesis coupe isn't like it's just the Sedan with two doors. I guess they share a chassis and some drivetrain, but the similarities seem to stop there for the most part. FWIW, I see BRZ/FRS far more often in daily driving than I see Genesis coupes. Could be that most of my driving is during commuting hours, though, and the twins are a much more economical commuter car.
I see the Frisbees as a really nice long-term car. Mechanically simple by modern standards, minimal options, and with an engine bay that doesn't look terrifying. Simply seems to be a very straightforward car with few gimmicks. I guess that's why I like them.
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