FRS needs tires What options besies Azenis?

The original tires on the FRS need to go. The Falken Azenis RT615s have been my go to tire for the fleet for many years.

I drive about 9,000 miles/year at most (half of that is on snow tires) so I think any of the 200 wear rated tires should do the job. Any compelling reason to switch loyalties?

The RT615 is an old design compared to some of the others on the market in that class (Rival S, ZII Star Spec, RE71-R, R-S3 v2, V720) So some of the newer tires will likely out-grip the Azenis. Not sure how the street manners are with the Azenis, so I can't really compare there. I do know the ZII SS is a little loud, the V720 is louder. Rivals are fairly quiet (the original, not sure about the Rival S).

What do you want out of your tires?

Conti DW will be better in deep water than the Azenis. So will others.

Most other 200TW tires will have more dry grip than the Azenis. BFG Rival & RivalS, Bridgestone RE71r, Kumho V720, Dunlop Z2 Star Spec, Hankook RS3. All will last less long on the street though. Except maybe the Hankook, those things go forever.

I want to DD the tires and not live in fear of rain. The Azenis never gave me any trouble.

Had not considered the noise requirement since I have only ever had one set of tires where it WAS an issue. (I want to say they were R compound Dunlops and they sounded like a bad diff!) Knowing me, I am bound to have a few 1000 mile days in the middle of the otherwise low yearly mileage.

Rain wise, any of the 200TW stuff will stick great on wet pavement. But if you hit a puddle at 70, especially if they're wide, things are going to get a bit sketchy. Noise and puddle behavior are the only complaints a friend has about DD-ing his E46 on the ZII Star Specs. In terms of treadwear, they're actually wearing slower than his previous set of Conti DWs (car is mostly street driven with occasional autocross, which shredded the shoulders of the DWs badly).

Honestly, if you want just a much dry and wet grip as the 200TW class tires at NORMAL STREET DRIVING TIRE TEMPS, but with vastly superior hydroplaning resistence, you really need to go with the better 300TW class UHP tires like Sport Comp-2, RE760, etc. The Sport Comp-2 is still the king of hydroplaning resistance, and I have yet to find it's limits in the dry on the street.

WildScotsRacing wrote: Honestly, if you want just a much dry and wet grip as the 200TW class tires at NORMAL STREET DRIVING TIRE TEMPS, but with vastly superior hydroplaning resistence, you really need to go with the better 300TW class UHP tires like Sport Comp-2, RE760, etc. The Sport Comp-2 is still the king of hydroplaning resistance, and I have yet to find it's limits in the dry on the street.

I have always skipped over this category of tires as commanding a Porsche-like premium. Took a look at they are not that bad. Might be time to re-calibrate my thought pattern. I believe there is already a thread running on this subject.

I agree, for tires you drive that much I would not get most of the 200TW tires out there in the Extreme Performance category.

At most I would get Max Performance, but yeah, probably UHP.

You only want the 200TW stuff under Extreme if you're a dedicated autocrosser.

ZII Star Spec is a pretty good all-around summer tire. I personally didn't find them to be too loud. Pretty good in the rain. Less cold resistant than UHP tires. They feel pretty greasy below 50 degrees F.

I'd look in the Max Performance category for a daily driver tire where wet and dry balance is a corncern in a high performance street tire that is trackable. UHP category would be the second choice for longer wearing but less capable for track/autocross. I'd go for the lightest mass tires as well...dropping unsprung weight really has a noticeable effect on ride quality and responsiveness in the FR-S. Stock/wheel tire mass is ~41lbs, you'd be raising it up to 44lbs with stock size Azenis.

Not a fan of the Azenis (RT215 at least, as those are what I had experience with)...side wall is TOO stiff (needs more compliance) and the weight is on the heavier end of the scale; ride quality will suck compared to stock. I don't think it would be an ideal match for the FR-S, but I'm a driver that values agilty and precision while having tires actually be the first part of the suspension. To me the Azenis are more a physical extension of the wheels, not a part of the suspension...

I've been really happy with the Rival on my Rabbit for streets and daily duties. Used to be fond of the Azenis but unless you are buying them bargain basement for old stock from Vulcantire.com I would avoid them. There are even faster tires out there like the RE71 but thankfully lots of good choices.

WildScotsRacing wrote: Honestly, if you want just a much dry and wet grip as the 200TW class tires at NORMAL STREET DRIVING TIRE TEMPS, but with vastly superior hydroplaning resistence, you really need to go with the better 300TW class UHP tires like Sport Comp-2, RE760, etc. The Sport Comp-2 is still the king of hydroplaning resistance, and I have yet to find it's limits in the dry on the street.

I can vouch for the SportComp2s. Unbeatable for a daily tire. They just do everything great.

Desmond wrote:

WildScotsRacing wrote: Honestly, if you want just a much dry and wet grip as the 200TW class tires at NORMAL STREET DRIVING TIRE TEMPS, but with vastly superior hydroplaning resistence, you really need to go with the better 300TW class UHP tires like Sport Comp-2, RE760, etc. The Sport Comp-2 is still the king of hydroplaning resistance, and I have yet to find it's limits in the dry on the street.

I can vouch for the SportComp2s. Unbeatable for a daily tire. They just do everything great.

I had the older version of these on my milano and they were awesome.

Vracer111 wrote: I'd look in the Max Performance category for a daily driver tire where wet and dry balance is a corncern in a high performance street tire that is trackable. UHP category would be the second choice for longer wearing but less capable for track/autocross.

And here in lies my problem with UHP tires. There are plenty of Max performance tires with the same or similar tread wear rating. They don't necessarily cost more either. I've owned both types, IMO the Max tires make more sense.

If you go with an Extreme performance tire, I have to wonder if the ZII Star Specs would be a good choice. They won't have as much of a wet weather problem as options like the Rivals (which I love in the dry) and wear better than the top tier AutoX tires like the RE71. I have no personal experience with the ZII Star Specs, but I plan to pick up a set later this year and find out.

Another option might be to look at Super Sports. They seems to be the absolute best performing Max performance tire and some test data suggest they almost achieve the level of the last generation of Extreme tires in the dry.

I've never heard a single bad thing about the Pilot Super Sport. And as far as rain, I don't think the star specs are any better than the Rivals. If anything, it might be the other way around. The star specs stick fine on wet pavement, but it doesn't take much of a puddle to lift them off the ground. They're not terribly far from the RE-71R in most respects.

Data here suggests the ZII Star Specs are better in the rain than the Rivals: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=197

GRM's test from last year suggested the ZII Star Spec wore better than the newest tires.

I participated and struggled mightily in a very wet and pretty cool race (53F / 12C) last year and I while driver talent is lacking, I suspect the Rivals were a significant contributor to the issue.

Wet performance in a test like that usually involves wet pavement with no standing water. They do well with that, but based on a good friend's DD experiences with them, they're damn near terrifying if you clip even a small puddle at highway speed, as the tread just can't clear water fast enough to avoid hydroplaning.

84FSP wrote: I've been really happy with the Rival on my Rabbit for streets and daily duties. Used to be fond of the Azenis but unless you are buying them bargain basement for old stock from Vulcantire.com I would avoid them. There are even faster tires out there like the RE71 but thankfully lots of good choices.

Have you ever ran Star Specs on your car for comparison?

And if so what do you think of their grip and handling in the wet?

I'm thinking about ZII Star Specs for my MK1 GTI but I haven't bought them yet.

Travis_K wrote:

Desmond wrote:

WildScotsRacing wrote: Honestly, if you want just a much dry and wet grip as the 200TW class tires at NORMAL STREET DRIVING TIRE TEMPS, but with vastly superior hydroplaning resistence, you really need to go with the better 300TW class UHP tires like Sport Comp-2, RE760, etc. The Sport Comp-2 is still the king of hydroplaning resistance, and I have yet to find it's limits in the dry on the street.

I can vouch for the SportComp2s. Unbeatable for a daily tire. They just do everything great.

I had the older version of these on my milano and they were awesome.

Jumping on the bandwagon.

I had the older version on my RX-7 (FC) and they were superb! I too never found their limits on the street (trust me, I tried), and the wet handling was nothing short of amazing. I plan to buy a set for my GTV6 project when it's ready for the road.

In the few autocrosses I attended with the car, I found the tires to be "competitive enough" but my driving ability wasn't (still isn't) quite there. I was getting real close to catching the 944 in my class (CSP) when he sold it to buy a Miata.

In reply to Contradiction:

I have run the standard DZ101 (not star specs) and was horrendously dissapointed. They were cheap to be fair. The 450F 500R spring rates I run turned their soft sidewalls into a squishy mess. I've heard good things about the Star Specs on a friends Turbo VR Corrado and he's been really happy with them.

http://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-66-102-victra-ma-z1

I have Maxxis (not those above) on my Mazda 5 and they have been a good solid tire..