FRS Valve Spring Recall

So, I get home the other day, and there is a recall notice for the FRS. Thinking something trivial until I read it and realize that it is a engine out heads apart job to replace a "valve spring" breakage issue.

Being the person that I am, I am curious about what the background reality of this recall is all about. Questions to the person at the dealer are pretty much of the mushroom growing variety.

Is it the actual springs or is it due to the rest of the valvetrain? Do they actually pull the head down to the casting and rebuild or do they just toss on new heads?  All they can tell me is that it is 16 hours, be prepared to be without the car for two days.

Can you stick new plugs in at the same time?  "Yes" For no labout charge? "No we cant do that"

What about timing belt? "We can change at regular price when doing the job." " "we have to work out of the book"

How many  of these have you done so far. "None" "Yours should be the first get in before there is a line-up" ( Might be five FRS in London)

I gotta stop buying first year releases of cool new cars. First the Miata with the Achilles crank-nose and now the FRS valvetrain.

Pete

In reply to NOHOME :

Labor charge for a timing belt would be sky high.  First they would have to re-engineer the engine to use a belt instead of two chains

here is the list of what is replaced according to ft86 forum

Never fly the A model of anything. 

That is quite the list. Glad I am not paying the bill or else I would be fining out how much fun an LSx is to install in one of these.

Cowl brace nut and bolt? WTF?

NOHOME said:

That is quite the list. Glad I am not paying the bill or else I would be fining out how much fun an LSx is to install in one of these.

 

Cowl brace nut and bolt? WTF?

yea the cowl brace nut and bolt is a big ?

That's crazy they'd specify replacing all of that stuff. Most of those parts wouldn't even need to be split to remove and work on the heads. So a lot of those gaskets and seals would be totally unnecessary. I wouldn't be surprised if that total parts bill is over $1000 and a lot if probably won't even get installed because a good technician wouldn't bother to mess with parts that don't need messing with while they're on the clock.

Seriously, that's like 75% of the gaskets and seals in the engine.

In reply to freetors :

It is amazing how much has to come apart to R&R the heads on an FA/FB engine.  The cylinder heads are a stack of layers.  They may be a step up from the EJs for efficiency but they are nowhere near as simple to work on.

I'm not particularly keen on having this done for my car... Looks to be quite complex, and the folks at my dealership are unlikely to have worked on a lot of boxer engines, so I think I'm going to wait a little while before sending the car under the scapel.  

I'm hoping my dealer will be more friendly when it comes to replacing the spark plugs.

In reply to bcp2011 :

They have not heard the final word on that subject matter of wanting to charge full pop on doing the plug change.  I think its five or six hundred canuck bucks for that job on its own.

Agreed that a lot of things need to go right so that this does not create more trouble. I am on record as claiming that the flat four is s ridiculous design and this does nothing to change my mind. 

Pete

NOHOME said:

They have not heard the final word on that subject matter of wanting to charge full pop on doing the plug change.  I think its five or six hundred canuck bucks for that job on its own.

My jaw hit the ground so hard it took a chunk out of my office chair. I'm only glad I was leaning forward a bit.

NOHOME said:

In reply to bcp2011 :

They have not heard the final word on that subject matter of wanting to charge full pop on doing the plug change.  I think its five or six hundred canuck bucks for that job on its own.

Agreed that a lot of things need to go right so that this does not create more trouble. I am on record as claiming that the flat four is s ridiculous design and this does nothing to change my mind. 

 

 

Pete

I dunno. That layout seems to have worked out ok for them Porsche folks..  :shrug:

In reply to bcp2011 :

Wonder if you can find a dealer that sells both Toyotas and Subarus. 

Hmm...

Oil Pan Drain Plug Gasket listed twice, but no oil listed?  Guess they are gonna give you a new motor before you get off the lot from the valve spring repair?

It looks to me like everything is listed twice, oil pan drain plug gasket included. As I read it, the first page includes all 26 parts and breaks down how they come packaged as part of the total "Valve Spring EG Kit" and then the second and third pages gives another list of the same 26 parts with figures to help specify the location on the car. I don't see any oil on other list, so not sure how that is going to work out.

In any case, all this makes me really glad that my late 2013 FR-S comes up clean when I search the VIN on Toyota's owner site. I hope it goes smoothly as possible for those of you under the recall!

NOHOME said:

In reply to bcp2011 :

....Agreed that a lot of things need to go right so that this does not create more trouble. I am on record as claiming that the flat four is s ridiculous design and this does nothing to change my mind. 

I would say a water cooled, overhead cam, flat-4 is hard to justify today. 

You are just multiplying the things that can go wrong for a lower center of gravity in a drivetrain that now is a much smaller percentage of the weight of the car in cars that seem to be quickly reaching the standard height of trucks of not to many years ago.

These designs are rather good at what they are for:

NOHOME said:

That is quite the list. Glad I am not paying the bill or else I would be fining out how much fun an LSx is to install in one of these.

 

Cowl brace nut and bolt? WTF?

If it's a crimped type locking nut, it's not supposed to be reused (although often is without an issue). While often reused, the specification for a lot of nuts and bolts used on modern cars is single-use.

ae86andkp61 said:

It looks to me like everything is listed twice, oil pan drain plug gasket included. As I read it, the first page includes all 26 parts and breaks down how they come packaged as part of the total "Valve Spring EG Kit" and then the second and third pages gives another list of the same 26 parts with figures to help specify the location on the car. I don't see any oil on other list, so not sure how that is going to work out.

 

In any case, all this makes me really glad that my late 2013 FR-S comes up clean when I search the VIN on Toyota's owner site. I hope it goes smoothly as possible for those of you under the recall!

Guess I need to check my VIN to see if it has this recall...

Not saying the Subaru Kludge is a BAD engine, but it is a silly thing if you stop and think of it from an elegant desigh standpoint.

4 cyls  so lets go with  4 cams.  yeah good idea why not.

4 cyls so yeah, lets use two cylinder heads...  yeah good idea. And two head gaskets, just in case one does not fail

DOHC...lets use rockers, cause that adds more parts. I know, technically they are followers, but are they really needed?

How about we double up on them cam phasor timing things, cause yeah that adds more stuff to fail

Just in case..lets really get em rolling in the aisles...Wait for it...TWO fuel injection systems!  Ironically, and I assume unexpectedly, this does have the benefit of saving this engine from the DI dirty valve syndrome. Put that down to serendipity.

Then...while they are laughing, lets make spark plug changes an engine out job!!!!

And lets make it sound like a flatulent platipus!

Toyota really needs to cut Subaru out of the picture on this chassis and put a real engine in the car. Figure a nice 2.5l straight four would do the  job just fine. 

In reply to NOHOME :

Did you consider all of that before you bought it?

NOHOME said:

 

Toyota really needs to cut Subaru out of the picture on this chassis and put a real engine in the car. Figure a nice 2.5l straight four would do the  job just fine. 

 

Like the 8AR-FTS which is a 2.0 turbo that is in the Lexus IS/GS 200t 175 kW (235 hp) at 4,800 - 5,600 rpm and 350 N⋅m (258 lb⋅ft) at 1,650 - 4000 rpm. Its already a brand engine in a rwd chassis.

Well let's not exaggerate the spark plug job.  It's prob 1-2 hours and not that hard when you tilt the engine from below.  Certainly it's not an engine out job (unless you want it to be...). 

The other points are fair though... A K engine in this thing would be fantastic.  Though I've had no real issues with my engine I don't find the lower center of gravity to be particularly compelling in going with a flat four.  

T.J. said:

In reply to bcp2011 :

Wonder if you can find a dealer that sells both Toyotas and Subarus. 

Good thought, though none around me are both unfortunately...  

In reply to TurnerX19 :

Not sure about Nohome, but I did consider it really strongly as I am also anti-flat-4 as unnecessarily complex...yet the fact that all other manufacturers of lightweight RWD affordable sports cars chose to spec them without the most basic requirement of a roof over one's head and provide stiffness and protection meant that my disdain for flat fours lost out to my disdain for useless...wait, I mean convertibles. 

bcp2011 said:

The other points are fair though... A K engine in this thing would be fantastic.  Though I've had no real issues with my engine I don't find the lower center of gravity to be particularly compelling in going with a flat four.  

Like you, I'd also much prefer to have a high revving inline 4 like the Honda K engine in this car over the flat 4. I'm wondering if the decision to use the Subaru flat 4 arrangement rather than a Toyota inline 4 was more to do with achieving that nice low hood line, and less to do with getting a low CG. Some inline 4 cylinder engines are quite tall, and I think that the look of the car would be compromised if the hood had to be higher to accommodate it.