Good engine for my El Camino project?

curtis73 wrote: Yeah, but a MS tuned for proper spark curve and fuel trim should do a heluvalot better than 12 mpg in a little car. Aren't Vipers EPA rated at 25 highway? And if we're talking sophistication, an LS1 isn't very sophisticated either.

fueleconomy.gov seems to show 19 hwy for the Viper. I know Vettes can get surprisingly good mileage, but I've never read about that for a Viper. A Viper is a lot more "little" than any version of the El Camino...

The V10 is also not a small package. Granted, I'm pretty sure all El Camino's were designed to take a GM I6, so it shouldn't be too difficult, but still...

Let's face it, any of the various suggestions could be made to work given enough time, money and fabrication skill thrown at it. I guess I just look at things from the perspective of "I'd rather be driving than building" so I look for the "easy button". An LS is the "easy button." A SBC is the cheaper version. But again, a lot of you guys get off on the "build" more than the finished project. I don't. If I could afford it, I'd be perfectly content with writing a check and having someone else do the work to make some of my crazy ideas a reality. Trust me. If I won the lottery, I'd be keeping Rob Mopar busy with projects for years...

I also tend to view projects for possible resale repercussions. An El Camino with a nicely installed LS or SBC would be (relatively) easy to unload in a pinch should some money emergency arise. Some odd, exotic engine that may require a lot of fabrication to install (and thus reverse)? Not so much. There's a limited market for vehicles like that - pretty much this forum - and most of us are perpetually broke.

I am digging the thought of a vortec inline engines with a factory manual trans. My dad had a H3 with the small 5 cylinder and knocked down low 20s mpg on the highway. Thats ith the heavy truck, automatic trans and full time awd. The inline 6 would be fun for the horsepower needs, though.

LS1s are very expensive, my recycler says he's still getting over 3500 for ls1/t56/ecu. If it was me and I only wanted about 300 hp. I'd probably run a 4.8 in full ls1 trim with like an ls6 cam to give it a little more power, and back it by a T5.

Get great driveability, fuel economy, and not too expensive.

Then you want more power you slap a t56 in and some ebay turbos hanging of the sides.

The cheap turbo 4.8s are the hot ticket on ls1 tech right now.

tuna55 wrote:

SilverFleet wrote: If you want to be different, do a late model 4.2L out of a Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada/9-7X. I've had dreams of throwing one of these into something else, like an El Camino, and turbocharging it. It's stock output (260hp IIRC) should be more than enough to move that thing.

I like this idea very much

I second this one if it fits. The Atlas family of engines have some very nice features. Unfortunately it looks like they are a bit of an orphan when it comes to the aftermarket, but isn't that perfect for this board?

I like the idea of a smaller GM V-8 the 4.8 or the 5.3 from a truck would be fun. I also like the sound of the 4.2 from a trailblazer.

I also really like the idea of the 3800 supercharged. I've never seen them mounted longitudinally with the sc. Mainly because everyone wants to put them in Fbodys and the tb would be too close the the firewall but I bet there is more room in an elky though.

sc 3.8s run about the same as a 4.8.

I agree with the 4.8/5.3. They don't quite make LS1 power, but you can find them for $500 all day long.

Old school 500 Cady, converted to port injection (build a long runner manifold with a good sized plenum), run by MegaSquirt.

Put any trans you want in it, so much torque you don't need to shift, just mash the throttle.

Will wrote: I agree with the 4.8/5.3. They don't quite make LS1 power, but you can find them for $500 all day long.

This. LSx engines are now common enough that I have no problem finding them in the local Pull-A-Part, even if the truck has been in the yard for a few weeks.

Hint: bring a sawzall and find a van. Nobody will yank an engine from a van if there is anything easier nearby.

My last two LSx engines cost me zero dollars. One was an LS1 with a big cam already installed. Bought the smashed Camaro for $3k and had the engine, harness, and ECU plus $3000 in my pocket in a bit over a month. Find a wreck you can part out.

Ian F wrote:

curtis73 wrote: Yeah, but a MS tuned for proper spark curve and fuel trim should do a heluvalot better than 12 mpg in a little car. Aren't Vipers EPA rated at 25 highway? And if we're talking sophistication, an LS1 isn't very sophisticated either.

fueleconomy.gov seems to show 19 hwy for the Viper. I know Vettes can get surprisingly good mileage, but I've never read about that for a Viper. A Viper is a lot more "little" than any version of the El Camino... The V10 is also not a small package. Granted, I'm pretty sure all El Camino's were designed to take a GM I6, so it shouldn't be too difficult, but still... Let's face it, any of the various suggestions could be made to work given enough time, money and fabrication skill thrown at it. I guess I just look at things from the perspective of "I'd rather be driving than building" so I look for the "easy button". An LS is the "easy button." A SBC is the cheaper version. But again, a lot of you guys get off on the "build" more than the finished project. I don't. If I could afford it, I'd be perfectly content with writing a check and having someone else do the work to make some of my crazy ideas a reality. Trust me. If I won the lottery, I'd be keeping Rob Mopar busy with projects for years... I also tend to view projects for possible resale repercussions. An El Camino with a nicely installed LS or SBC would be (relatively) easy to unload in a pinch should some money emergency arise. Some odd, exotic engine that may require a lot of fabrication to install (and thus reverse)? Not so much. There's a limited market for vehicles like that - pretty much this forum - and most of us are perpetually broke.

In reply to Ian: Ya gotta play to win.

A Viper V10 is not a Ram V10, unless we're talking STR10 Ram. The 2500-3500 Ram V10 is an iron monster designed for big block-like bottom end torque. It's big, heavy, and no Viper parts interchange. Short of novelty when opening the hood, it's not a great return (fun, not funds) for the amount of work needed to do the swap. Return on funds would probably be worse. I know of one '70 Challenger that had the truck V10 swapped into it. It took a good bit of cutting the car up to make it work. Same for the Viper V10, but you have a 500 horse motor to start with instead of a 300 one.

I know a '96 Viper GTS can get 30 MPG cruising at 80 on Hot Rod's Power Tour. Same Viper got 12 around town. 80 was just above idle in 6th in my buddy's old GTS.

SBC Chevy is the easiest path. They were born with them, and with the right combo decent MPG and power is there. The LS swap is the next easiest. Those motors are the current generation's SBC. Lots of demand for cars with the swap already done, lots of support for doing the swap.

dean1484 wrote: LM4

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/speed-on-a-budget-build-a-400hp-chevy-ls-motor-for-und-1125469009

bentwrench wrote: Old school 500 Cady, converted to port injection (build a long runner manifold with a good sized plenum), run by MegaSquirt. Put any trans you want in it, so much torque you don't need to shift, just mash the throttle.

I've done a couple Caddy 500 builds. I had one in my 66 Bonneville for a while. They are relatively light and have a great aftermarket. As a hot rodder myself, I tend to shy away from flat-tappet engines (or ones that require huge dollars to convert to roller) with modern oils. I can run a ZDDP additive, but its also nice to just dump in oil wherever and whenever. I get funny with things that need "special" attention.

But, still... great idea and I'm still thinking about it.

Since you don't want to go with the LT1 or LS1,5.3,6.0 route, I also second going with a Mercedes diesel. They will be lighter and smaller for a more manageable package for a car vs using a truck diesel engine. I would also suggest a M57 turbodiesel engine from an E90 diesel. That engine won't be cheap, though.

Hellcat motor

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: Since you don't want to go with the LT1 or LS1,5.3,6.0 route, I also second going with a Mercedes diesel. They will be lighter and smaller for a more manageable package for a car vs using a truck diesel engine. I would also suggest a M57 turbodiesel engine from an E90 diesel. That engine won't be cheap, though.

I wouldn't say don't want to its just that I have a kinda blank slate and stuffing it with a cookie-cutter swap is kinda boring. I have a couple 350s that I could build for it, but the benefits of modern technology kinda make a good argument.

I like diesels. Not sure how to get decent power out of the Mercedes to make it fun without belching smoke. The easy diesel swap would be a 6.5L, but again... how do you get decent power without clouds of smoke.

I have been searching ebay with keywords like "diesel" and "V12" and "turbo" to see what comes up for inspiration. Any other keywords you can think of?

another vote for the atlas 4.2 i6

AngryCorvair wrote: another vote for the atlas 4.2 i6

There have been several votes for this. I personally dislike that motor. Mom had a trailblazer with that engine and I thought it sucked big time.

The VVT was done in steps, so as you accelerated you could physically feel bumps in the power. It made pretty poor MPGs for its power and it sounded like a slant 6.

I love you all, but I veto the Atlas I6. I would rather do a traditional SBC.

What's a 2JZ and Supra 5spd go for these days?

Colorado I5 plus a big turbo would be neat.

Appleseed wrote: What's a 2JZ and Supra 5spd go for these days?

I second that. Look how well it went into that Dart.

No shortage on power.

Rob_Mopar wrote: In reply to Ian: Ya gotta play to win. A Viper V10 is not a Ram V10, unless we're talking STR10 Ram. The 2500-3500 Ram V10 is an iron monster designed for big block-like bottom end torque. It's big, heavy, and no Viper parts interchange. Short of novelty when opening the hood, it's not a great return (fun, not funds) for the amount of work needed to do the swap. Return on funds would probably be worse. I know of one '70 Challenger that had the truck V10 swapped into it. It took a good bit of cutting the car up to make it work. Same for the Viper V10, but you have a 500 horse motor to start with instead of a 300 one. I know a '96 Viper GTS can get 30 MPG cruising at 80 on Hot Rod's Power Tour. Same Viper got 12 around town. 80 was just above idle in 6th in my buddy's old GTS.

I'll second this.

Good if you want a ram to tow occasionally but can't afford a cummins price tag. You'll get 12 mpg no matter what, unless you have to loud pedal to the floor, then you'll get 3.

No point to putting it in anything else though because you get better power and about the same mileage from any big block v8.