Goodbye German precision. Hello American rumble? (Mustang content)

I will shortly wave goodbye to my trusty Spec E30 race car. Racing proved to be too expensive and risky for this guy but I don't want to give up driving on the track or instructing. So I begin the mental masturbation of trying to figure out a worthy successor. The Answer is just too slow for me now. E36 M3 is a possibility but they are not inexpensive. The siren song of a V8 calls to me. Plus, I like the challenge of driving something far more difficult than my E30.

Which means Mustangs, mostly. No F-bodies. Just...no. Can't stand 'em. I feel the same way about Corvettes except the C6 which is WAY out of my price range.  And I like Fords. So, Mustang.

My DD is a 2006 S197 V6 with a manual trans. Nice car. I've tracked it and it is impressive but has some severe handicaps, not the least of which is the 117 mph speed limiter due to the failure-prone driveshaft. Also, not a V8.

Truly the best bang for the buck is the 99-04 'new edge' Mustangs. There is a lot of discussion found via Google about them but most topics are "Which is better for track use - Fox or New Edge?". I don't care about your floppy, rusty old Fox. Don't care about your hideous, underpowered early SN95 either. Solo info on the 260hp new edge cars for track use is...well, lacking.

So who out there can give me real knowledge on what they are like? What things are essential and what 'mods' are wasted money? I plan on finding a good runner with cosmetic challenges (because spinning into the gravel trap on occasion amuses me) for under $5000. I'll have some money for upgrades...and lots of tires, lol.

Note:  only V8s I've ever owned in my life were trucks.

The years your looking at still come with the same old 4 link rear that limits the Fox chassis, the SN95, and the New Edge's. That will have to be changed if not done on the car you buy. Converting to coil over strut also goes a long way to making the car trackable. 

I've found that Fox cars with subframe connectors and a few other mods, especially if you have a notch back car end up as stiff as the later chassis.  But your not interested so I'll stop here.

I've considered similar

I might just buy this if I was wanting to go ford

https://www.racingjunk.com/Other/182927403/1995-Ford-Mustang-Road-Race-Autocross.html?sortby=price-lowest&page=2&categoryId=85&offset=19&from=category

That looks like a great place to start, or finish.  Free mustang with $600o worth of upgrades that you will do anyway, eventually.  The old pushrod engine has a lower center of gravity and only one cam to change when you want to give it a new personality. 

The best part is everyone is coyote swapping their 5.0 and 4.6 cars now so there are lots of leftover parts to be had for a fraction of the cost as people are now on round three of their modifications.

Did you say autocross?  The fox/SN95 chassis is a lot smaller feeling than the SN197 with a more upright driving position to better see the cones with. 

Problems with the Fox are significantly lower starting HP, crappier front suspension, cracking/rusting floorpans and the uber high demand for notch LXs has driven the price up.

I want to turn the key and go with only maintenance items and a little suspension work, not swap cams/carbs/install headers, etc. Always cheaper to buy existing HP than pay to build it yourself.

I don't have direct experience but since you're a track guy and it will be a heavy V8.

Suspensions, wheels/tires, duct the front brakes, quality fluids and go. (Because I'm assuming the requisite safety gear will already be done)

After a few track days, I'd have engine/trans/diff fluids analyzed and see if additional cooling is needed. 

Find a old unupdated Spec Race Shelby for about 17-20K and drive the wheels off it. Not like you are going to use this on the street right? Sell it for what you paid a few years later. 

I don't know E36 M3 (other than liking the FF idea). I'm just mentioning that I find it amusing to hear a CC.com veteran going to GRM for Mustang tech.

If 20k was my budget over 6kish I might consider the shelby FF option. But that's also "find someones track prepped c5z" territory

Sorry ddavidv I had not read your entire post regarding thoughts on the SN95s etc.

here is a new edge. But personally I think the built up SN95 is the better deal and from the research I have done I think I would prefer the small block ford powered car over the mod motor. Seems the only real way to get power out of the mod motors is with boost

https://www.racingjunk.com/Other/182944394/2000-Mustang-GT-Track-HPDE.html?categoryId=85&offset=4&from=category

Pushrod 5.0 motors are easy to make power and cheap and simple. You don't like foxes so I would say SN95 is best bang for you buck.

If your budget allows it the FF spec racer is an excellent idea. And could still be made street legal for a quick run to the store.

Yeah a quick google was talking about all motor sub 2500 dollar 400hp builds for the small block fords 

Yeah the 5.0 in the earlier SN-95's is definitely the engine to get if you want cheap power. I ended up with a 96 Convertible 5-speed, so I've got the non-PI modular motor. It's not that slow, and I prefer the looks of the SN-95 to the New Edge, so it works for me. Plus I figure I can put in some 4.10 gears and do a PI head + intake swap along with a Comp cam to get closer to 300hp which I think will be a nice power point for some drag and track use.

Kreb said:

I don't know E36 M3 (other than liking the FF idea). I'm just mentioning that I find it amusing to hear a CC.com veteran going to GRM for Mustang tech.

I searched there. The search engine came up with barely related threads or covered every vintage other than the one I'm considering. Weird, I know. When I feel like scrolling through twenty pages of old suspension threads maybe I'll find more.

That SN95 on Racing Junk isn't a bad deal.

Most Fox 5.0 cars I'd be shopping are going to be near stock at around 225hp. More power means more money in the engine that I'd rather spend on tires, shocks and brakes. Pre-PI modular SN95s are ugly dogs and for very little more money I can get a new edge with 26ohp.

OTOH I just checked Ebay completed auctions and saw three S197 GTs that sold for under six grand, which astounds me. If I could duplicate one of those deals I'd be all over that. 300hp stock, a bit more weight, arguably better looking but a vastly superior chassis.

FF race cars at 20k aren't even in the ballpark. 

NASA runs a couple of different Pony car classes. The cars you're looking at would run in the Camaro Mustang Challenge. I know you said you're done with racing, but building to a ruleset would accomplish a couple of things. First, it would give you lap times to shoot for. It's always good to have a benchmark. Second, it would keep you from going down the bottomless pit of modifications that is Mustang Life. CMC cars race hard and are durable. A street car modified to run like them would be a hoot. 

At least in my case I need to not have to trailer the car but if hes coming out of spec E30 thats probably not an issue. I've seen some pony cars go pretty cheap on copart but if you want to mostly buy and drive that route won't be easy

I'd be all about Copart except in my state the public can't buy there.

I'm on the fence about keeping the trailer. Its kind of a PITA to store and move around but it is paid for and not worth a lot. Plus it has a winch, and winches are cool.

I've also marathon watched "Roadkill" recently and this damn thing keeps bubbling to the surface of my consciousness:

It would be fun to build but I'm not sure how much use it would actually see. Plus, it rains here.

There was a C4 vette kart at autocross a couple months ago when I went and it seemed to have real issues getting the power down, not sure if the lack of body/weight reduction threw off the balance or what but it looked a mess.

Now that I live in the south, whatever I get needs to have working AC or I am going to have to pony up for coolsuit in the HPDE car

At least on racing junk the actual American Iron/Camaro Mustang Challenge cars seem to be much more expensive

Note that you CAN buy from copart from other states it just means sight unseen/shipping. And you can likely buy in your state using a broker. Essentially its a third party with the licenses who bids on your behalf and then sells you the car. The one I was going to try was autobidmaster but I am not sure if there is better.

GRM:

OP - E36 M3 is good but expensive.

GRM - Here is a $20k race car. 

I think I may actually be somewhat qualified to answer on some of this. My summer daily driver is a supercharged 2004 4.6 SOHC Mustang. I've brought it on track a few times (usually when another dedicated track car breaks) and while it makes fun noises and is entertaining to toss around, it's crap as a track car. It's not to say you can't make it fast...but I'd choose a different platform to start with. On the plus side there is a massive aftermarket and junkyards are full of parts. Here's a breakdown:

1) Brakes -- it's a heavy car with pretty bad stock brakes. Upgraded calipers, pads, rotors, and fluid are a must.

2) Suspension -- a solid axle Mustang can handle fairly well, but it costs quite a bit of money to do it right. Check out Maximum Motorsports panhard bars (Ford decided this wasn't an important part until 2005) and torque arms. Alternatively, look into the Watts link setup offered by several companies. Depending on your wallet you can pursue a tubular K-frame, coilovers, etc.

3) Powertrain -- while it's a bit of a dog, the 4.6 is pretty reliable. Plenty of options for upgrades to make decent power for very little money, but stay away from forced induction. Transmissions are generally reliable. You will probably want to change the final drive gearing. 

4) Drivability -- Seats are mostly flat and will need to be replaced. The stock gas pedal positioning relative to the brake pedal is atrocious...heel and toe shifting will be impossible unless you get creative. 

Mustangs make for excellent drag cars due to their robust solid axle, but when it comes to making turns, they leave a lot to be desired. If you want an all-around good track car, any Corvette is probably a better bet. Yeah, a decent C4/C5 will cost a little more than a New Edge Mustang, but you'll spend about that much making the Mustang into a decent car (brakes, panhard bars, better seats, etc).

I keep thinking about doing something similar, I had a 2000 GT years ago and steadily improved it with castoff parts from other people's projects.  I wanted all the Maximum Motorsports stuff, but kept my car relatively mild because it was the daily.  I had added Cobra front brakes with streetable track pads, the "Bullitt" suspension kit, and 17x9 Cobra wheels and grippier rubber.  It seems like the biggest deficiency was the stock seats at that point, and I kept missing out on forum deals on Corbeaus because of work and school.

It'd be a blast to drive a similar car today after having more experience and see if it's still as fun as I remember!

Hmm.  I think an E36 M3 is the way to go.  You can find ones that are well setup track wise for $10-12k.  Put in gas and go.

I'm a bit biased as I tend to prefer German cars and my track car currently is a '98 M3.  No V8 rumble, but they're easy to work on, parts are surprisingly cheap and they're durable. 

Plus if you want the V8 rumble, swap in an LSx...