GRM Exclusive Reveal: Exocet Spec-A

In this thread:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/exocet-offroad/110258/page1/

Luke: You've been looking for a project. I think this is it! It's got a lot more cage around it to keep your wife happy. You can kick butt at the autocross, but being Texas you have access to all sorts of offroading possibilities. Do it!

Depending on how the insurance from the wreck pays out I just may.

It comes full circle! I'm now an Exocet owner. Chassis 200 is one hell of a milestone!

Kevin dropped it off at work today. Exciting stuff.

Congrats!

NICE Warren!!!

We had some fun at AMP yesterday.

https://www.facebook.com/exomotive/videos/1007966062608634/

I was afraid this thread had died. Long live the Exocet thread! And yes all of the fun has moved to Facebook.

Youtube > Facebook video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JwlouEyak

Thank you Warren. You have helped me convince rednecks and mud truck friends that Miata's can be cool (Kieth the Targa has a similar effect on that crowd). The two of you converted me to Miata fandom and ownership.

I want to know how well the Geolanders survived the track day. Any chunking?

You know, for science.

I was shocked. Zero chunking. They permanently lost a considerable amount of grip after a few heat cycles. The got greasy after about 3-4 laps each session, which was extra fun. Even cycled out and greasy, they were still good enough for lazy 1:40s around AMP.

The less grip they offered, the more fun I had.

Those LED lights sure must give a 'strong impression' to the guy you're behind !!!!

Resurrecting a subject that started waaay back on page 16:

Sultan wrote: I like it better with the cage. Now how about a windshield:-)

Warren v wrote: The tribe has spoken. As an alternative to a user-assembled temporary Locost glass windshield, here's a permanent windshield option.

Ouch. Okay, I'll 'fess up; I make/sell a lot of parts for home built sports cars, particularly Locost parts, and I've been making windshield frames to builder's specs--regardless of what they're building--for a good while now, and I've never thought of them as temporary, just removable (though the “user assembled” part was fair). But I quit working on the Exocet-specific windshields after I saw this post, because I really like what Kevin and Warren are doing and I want (and still want) to stay on their good side.

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Warren v wrote: A high quality, good looking, removable windshield compatible with the Base or Sport is much more difficult to develop...

Ya think? A Base/Sport windshield is a challenge indeed, particularly for me, because like any good aftermarket supplier should, I want my windshields to have the minimum of interference with the cars they’re attaching to. This means no new bolt holes in the chassis, no stanchion-slots sawn in the hood, no metal-to-metal clamps that will abrade the paint on the chassis; it truly is a tall order. The Locost technique (drill holes in the scuttle and bolt the stanchion in place) ain’t gonna fly on an Exocet. I’ve got my Sport kit down to to 1/8” pop rivet holes for locating pins but my No New Holes goal has so far eluded me.

Warren v wrote: ...but we will eventually come out with one. On our timeline, it's looking like Mid-2014.

The well-earned success of their product has those guys working on higher priorities than windshield kits. Besides, it’s apparently not necessary; Exomotive supplies windshield mounts for Sport chassis that, with AS1 glass added by the builder, satisfies most DMVs. But the mice keep calling me, either because their DMV sent them home with a stern lecture, or because they want something taller than what’s off the shelf at Exomotive. I had a couple of requests from Exocet builders this month, and since mid-2014 came and went (hey, they have plenty to do at Exomotive before windshields hit their front burner, and I’m more of a windshield specialist…particularly since I bit the bullet and spend mumblemumble grand on a custom extrusion die and 500 pounds of 6061 T6 windshield surround channel and a CNC channel bender. So I contacted Kevin, and he’s cool with the idea. So I’ve put 50-state-legal Exocet windshield kits back on my front burner. So now I need to find a couple Exocet owners near me who will let me do test fittings and take photos of my windshields on their cars. I’m in the Eugene Oregon area, and I believe there are some Exocets around Portland; if those owners would contact me at jack@kineticvehicles.com I’d appreciate it.

JackMcCornack wrote: Resurrecting a subject that started waaay back on page 16:

Sultan wrote: I like it better with the cage. Now how about a windshield:-)

I was considering commenting on what I was up to at the time, but I was such a noob, and the conversation was getting a little steamy, and then

Warren v wrote: The tribe has spoken. As an alternative to a user-assembled temporary Locost glass windshield, here's a permanent windshield option.

Ouch. Okay, I'll 'fess up; I make/sell a lot of parts for home built sports cars, particularly Locost parts, and I've been making windshield frames to builder's specs--regardless of what they're building--for a good while now, and I've never thought of them as "temporary", just removable (though the “user assembled” part was fair). But I quit working on the Exocet-specific windshields after I saw this post, because I really like what Kevin and Warren are doing and I want (and still want) to stay on their good side.

Warren v wrote: A high quality, good looking, removable windshield compatible with the Base or Sport is much more difficult to develop...

Ya think? A Base/Sport windshield is a challenge indeed, particularly for me, because like any good aftermarket supplier should, I want my windshields to have the minimum of interference with the cars they’re attaching to. This means no new bolt holes in the chassis, no stanchion-slots sawn in the hood, no metal-to-metal clamps that will abrade the paint on the chassis; it truly is a tall order. The Locost technique (drill holes in the scuttle and bolt the stanchion in place) ain’t gonna fly on an Exocet. I’ve got my Sport kit down to to 1/8” pop rivet holes for locating pins but my No New Holes goal has so far eluded me.

Warren v wrote: ...but we will eventually come out with one. On our timeline, it's looking like Mid-2014.

The well-earned success of their product has those guys working on higher priorities than windshield kits. Besides, it’s apparently not necessary; Exomotive supplies windshield mounts for Sport chassis that, with AS1 glass added by the builder, satisfies most DMVs. But the mice keep calling me, either because their DMV sent them home with a stern lecture, or because they want something taller than what’s off the shelf at Exomotive. I had a couple of requests from Exocet builders this month, and since mid-2014 came and went (hey, they have plenty to do at Exomotive before windshields hit their front burner, and I’m more of a windshield specialist…particularly since I bit the bullet and spend mumblemumble grand on a custom extrusion die and 500 pounds of 6061 T6 windshield surround channel and a CNC channel bender. So I contacted Kevin, and he’s cool with the idea. So I’ve put 50-state-legal Exocet windshield kits back on my front burner. So now I need to find a couple Exocet owners near me who will let me do test fittings and take photos of my windshields on their cars. I’m in the Eugene Oregon area, and I believe there are some Exocets around Portland; if those owners would contact me at jack@kineticvehicles.com I’d appreciate it.

Jack,

Thanks for looking into this and stepping up to the plate respectfully. I think this is an important project. Unfortunately I am in OH with a race chassis so I expect I am unable to help but if there are any photos,measurements or anything else I can assist with please let me know. I assume you have or will post this on the Facebook Exocet group and MEV forum board for the most exposure? Thanks again

Thanks Zeitgeist. I've never posted on the FB Exocet group and haven't posted on the MOG forum in years...but you're probably right. I've notice that the MOG forum (at least the Exocet part) is getting pretty Americanized*, so I might have some luck there. I'm going to do a Race chassis windshield too, but it seems the Sport (and presumably Basic) chassis guys are more anxious. I'm hoping to hear from thestig (who is in the Portland area) for a Race chassis fitting, and I-dunno-who for a Sport.

*Which reminds me: I need genuine Made-in-Atlanta Exocets as my models. The engineering by Kevin and Warren and Co is outstanding, and I am confident that what fits one Exomotive Exocet Sport chassis will fit on another one, and there aren't many kit manufacturers I'd say that about.

Jack - I'm in the same boat as Zeitgeist, being an OH resident, LONGING for approval from our State Patrol office for my registration. One item that is a "must have" here is a windshield of adequate height to have to look through it, with laminated safety glass (not Lexan - not allowed by laws on the books here), and a functional wiper. After this, the rest seems to be open to the local inspector's discretion - in Cincinnati area, where I'm at, the inspector says the wiper(s) must clear an area that allows the seated / belted in driver to see the span from top of the left front wheel to top of the right front wheel (although this isn't strictly written this way in the regs.) Wiper can be top mounted, or bottom mounted, and can be manually or electrically actuated - builder's choice on these items. Local inspector for me is "insisting" that entire periphery of the glass be surrounded (i.e. - no open glass edges). This is found nowhere in the regs. that I can see - again, his interpretation. This part - assuming I must comply with it - is where the Exomotive windshield frame falls short, as it covers the entire bottom of the 'glass', but only comes up either side ~ 4". Curious - is this type of situation what you've run into in your past with other regulators who require a 'tall enough to see through' safety glass windshield?

If you want any pics of what I've built up so far (I do have an Exomotive Sport windshield frame), email me at jeinberger@wi.rr.com - I'm keenly interested in what you might come up with for a solution !!

I would be going directly to the regulations for questions like that. "Tall enough" is quantifiable, as is the range of vision. Heck, we got the XXXocet registered in Massachusetts, and it's not exactly the most relaxed state in the union.

Wipers are easy enough to manage if you use a hot rod part and clamp it to the top of the windshield.

I also - via the "local" OH State Patrol inspector - have a bumpers issue to contend with. Local guy is requiring me to fab and install bumpers that go (minimum) from center of tread left to center of tread right, minimum 4.5 inches tall, front and rear, tied into the vehicle main frame. OH law states "vehicles originally equipped with bumpers from the original manufacturer must retain them (to those specs)". When I let him know that OEM does not include bumpers, his response was "but you need to fit them".

So ..... there appears to a situation in this state where the local OH State Patrol office is allowed to interpret rules.

That said, at least one Exocet (purchased directly from MEV some years ago before Exomotive started up) has been successfully registered here, with a windshield and a wiper, but WITHOUT bumpers. I have a plan - once the windshield is fabricated as that is a know 'have to do' - to see if I can look for an alternative inspection site with more experience dealing with a self-assembled vehicle than what the local office does. Hoping the bumper issue goes away at that point.

Side note - In OH, you have to go to an Ohio State Patrol vehicle inspection station, and there are only 9 total in the state. Most of what they handle are inspections of re-assembled "salvage title" vehicles. From what I'm experiencing, self-assembled vehicles for them are an oddity.

The local hot rod club might be of assistance here, or possibly even Factory Five. I don't trust them to know the specifics of the rules - too much "knowledge" that's been passed around - but they'll certainly know where the inspectors are that understand kit builds as opposed to repaired salvage cars.

Good point ... looking into that a bit now (I work with a couple of those fellas), and I'm finding that it is VERY popular to buy any kind of remotely similar vehicle that has a title with it, and use that title from the 'donor car' moving forward. No inspection required in that case.

einy wrote: Local inspector for me is "insisting" that entire periphery of the glass be surrounded (i.e. - no open glass edges).

Einy, one thing to consider re a full peripheral frame is that a tall enough to see through AS1 safety glass windshield at Race chassis width may have more air pressure at speed than it can handle without folding inward. I'm not a hip FEA guy when it comes to engineering (I'm not even an engineer, though trains have always fascinated me) so I confirm my calculations/estimates/hopes with physical testing, and I'll tell ya, sandbagging a windshield is always kinda weird, but from horseback, I'd say the windshield needs a full frame for structural reasons.

Regarding bumpers, I do a lot of parts for That Homebuilt Non-Kit Sports Car That Dares Not Say Its Name (on this forum thread, at least) and I supply a fair number of noses with the word "nose" removed from the invoice and the word "bumper" there instead. And still I sleep peacefully, knowing that this $199 nose is cheaper than any factory replacement plastic front bumper for any new car you can buy in America. A rose by any other name and all that--maybe Kevin can call his nose a bumper in states that require one.

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Good point on the wind pressure aspect, Jack ... I was not taking that into consideration. I have some number crunching to do now.

einy wrote: Good point on the wind pressure aspect, Jack ... I was not taking that into consideration. I have some number crunching to do now.

Seriously, einy, you better. I've probably made a hundred windshield frames by now and -nobody- has ever brought this up to me (before I brought it up to them), so I gather lots of people don't think about it. Q (dynamic pressure) is roughly 1 (pound per square foot) at 20 mph; it increases at the square so q at 100 mph is about 25 (think going 80 mph and hitting a 20mph gust), give yourself a modest safety factor and you'd better be planning on 50 pounds per square foot of glass. A windshield in your face would be unpleasant, particularly because if it happens, it's going to happen when you're going real fast.

Jack - what have you found to be effective for keeping cave in from happening? Requirement for mild steel u channel, or would aluminum suffice? Granted, pretty open ended question, as wall thickness and channel depth would clearly affect any material's capability in this regard. I am contemplating using a combination of the Exomotive bottom / minor height side rails welded steel piece, along with a custom fab'd aluminum or steel u channel that extends the sides up and covers the top. Interested in any criticism / feedback on this general idea. I think the two pieces would bolt together (2 bolts per side), with the upper piece sliding into the lower piece's channel. (Lower piece has 0.58" of width inside the channel.)