GRM reviews the Volt

This is sure to draw opinions from all sorts of folks. It certainly surprised a few here in the office. What do y'all think?

GRM tests the Chevrolet Volt.

Before you ask, no we didn't get to take it to Ocala or an autocross. I have high hopes for a second round of testing.

I love the looks of it.

Good review. The Volt really is an option for those looking to eliminate the need for petrol to complete their daily commutes,while allowing for unimpeded longer trips. Incredible tech for a real world driver. Also, please spare me the, "my 500 dollar crapcan gets better mileage and it will take a Volt owner one million miles of driving to come out ahead" comments. Apples to oranges, people. Considering the various incentives(federal.state and local-depending where you live), the price really isn't that bad. I'm considering the lease option as it has pretty favorable terms,incudes a great warranty and I can return the car in a few years and sample an even more efficient vehicle at that time. Good job, GM.

Nice looking car in red, and great video by JG. I love that the "related project cars" are your crap-can racer Lincoln and the 84 Eagle wagon though

Gosh, the future JG is much more normal than the present one.

What, no, "Wait, Watt?"

Doesn't the Volt share a platform with the Cruze? Makes me wonder if it'd be possible to put on some nice suspension bits eventually.

Javelin wrote: Nice looking car in red, and great video by JG. I love that the "related project cars" are your crap-can racer Lincoln and the 84 Eagle wagon though

I couldn't help myself.

forzav12 wrote: Also, please spare me the, "my 500 dollar crapcan gets better mileage and it will take a Volt owner one million miles of driving to come out ahead" comments. Apples to oranges, people.

So you're saying your mind's made up and you don't want to hear the truth? You just want further justifications to make you feel good about what you want to do.

Way to go, CarGuy- you beat the index by 4 posts.

The truth is that in some circumstances, the Volt delivers a 200 mpg commute. If your typical driving cycle falls into that category and you're shopping for a new car, the Volt is a viable candidate. Not cheap, but that's between the customer and their accountant.

carguy123 wrote:

forzav12 wrote: Also, please spare me the, "my 500 dollar crapcan gets better mileage and it will take a Volt owner one million miles of driving to come out ahead" comments. Apples to oranges, people.

So you're saying your mind's made up and you don't want to hear the truth? You just want further justifications to make you feel good about what you want to do.

I think what he is saying is "some people don't want to drive a $500 crap can". At least that is how I take it. I actually bought a cheap Mercury Capri XR2 to commute in at one point when gas starting going up. Long story short my wife hated it, I didn't particularly like it, and we now commute in a 2003 Mustang Mach 1 that gets 21mpg....the capri is sold. It isn't nearly as thrifty as the capri, but we both enjoy our commute much more.

Now my first choice for a commuter is my motorcycle, but that just isn't an option when the wife and I ride in together unless conditions are perfect.

I think a Volt would make a lot of sense for some people....my wife included.

carguy123 wrote:

forzav12 wrote: Also, please spare me the, "my 500 dollar crapcan gets better mileage and it will take a Volt owner one million miles of driving to come out ahead" comments. Apples to oranges, people.

So you're saying your mind's made up and you don't want to hear the truth? You just want further justifications to make you feel good about what you want to do.

I think what he's saying is that comparing the Volt to an '84 CRX HF is not a valid comparison. They're not making the '84 CRX HF anymore, and even if they were it does not meet the desires of the current automotive consumer, or the current legal regulations for production. Of course, that begs the argument over whether or not current automotive consumers are stupid, and whether the regulations are a good thing or a bad thing, or a combination of the two.

In my opinion, the Volt is the best execution yet of the gas/electric hybrid concept, and a fantastic option for a lot more folks than probably realize it. Some people's circumstances would put them outside of the sweet spot for a Volt to be a real benefit, and those folks would probably be better served by something else. But that's why there are multiple car companies, making multiple different kinds of cars.

For my situation, it would actually make quite a bit of sense. My commute seems to mesh very well with its strengths. Honestly, the big factor for me is still the price. I just don't have the kind of financial juice to swing a payment on a car in that price range. Still, though, I've found myself doing some math.

Since I've worked here, there have been three cars that actually inspired me to want to own them. Two of them (Saturn and MS3) I've actually taken the plunge. The Volt (or the next Volt) might eventually be the third.

jg

It doesn't have to be a crap car to get good mileage, it just has to be an older car.

And Tom, what index?

I've followed the Volt closely and while I think long term it's a more viable concept than the 100% electrics I don't think it's anywhere near ready for prime time. It's another way for the terminally PC to feel good about themselves.

There's one that parks outside my favorite bar fairly regularly and it always is strikingly good looking after a couple pints of beer.

Electrics are the future, however the juice is stored. I'm glad people are paying a premium for them, though. It's funding the R&D necessarily for them to eventually be fun.

Personally, I kinda want to build a mid-engined Locost based on a hybrid drivetrain.

My only issue with the video is how you refer to your place of work.

Office should be replace by "World Headquarters".

Nice review. I'd like to see them do something for families- a minivan or ford flex type wagon with this type of tech. I'm interested in the 5th or 6th seat with some room left for camping gear. Here's to hoping that this tech makes it to other vehicles rather than stuck in the "green halo" that the prius seems to occupy. More kudos should probably be given to GM for putting hybrids in trucks and suburbans where it will arguably increase the efficiency well more than putting the tech in already economical cars.

Still waiting to see UPS and US mail trucks with a hybrid sticker. Lots of our city buses have it.

carguy123 wrote: I've followed the Volt closely and while I think long term it's a more viable concept than the 100% electrics I don't think it's anywhere near ready for prime time. It's another way for the terminally PC to feel good about themselves.

• The volt does as well on mileage as just about anything available or historically available, at over 40mpg when running on gas. Are there cars that have beat it (at the cost of safety and convenience levels)? Yes, but not many.

• It has that other neat trick of being able to run off of electricity purchased off-peak at a significant discount over the cost of gas, real or potential ecological benefits aside.

• This, I have to assume, also constitutes testing the waters for the market for such a thing. In other words, for the market to respond to the latent demand for substantially-electric vehicles, some of the demanders have to be given an opportunity to reduce their latency, so to speak. Maybe it's not ready for you (or vice versa), but you don't have to be an early adopter.

• Similarly, if I have a vehicle I can partially power from home, and opt to pay my local utility to purchase an equal amount of wind power to offset what I use, that is also a vote-with-dollars for the demand for such technology.

So, in more than one area, the Volt (or any plug-in hybrid or electric) is the currently available tool for using the free market to request that this avenue continues to be explored and improved upon.

Which sounds a lot more meaningful to me than just pegging the smugometer....

ransom wrote:

carguy123 wrote: I've followed the Volt closely and while I think long term it's a more viable concept than the 100% electrics I don't think it's anywhere near ready for prime time. It's another way for the terminally PC to feel good about themselves.

* The volt does as well on mileage as *just about* anything available or historically available, at over 40mpg when running on gas. Are there cars that have beat it (at the cost of safety and convenience levels)? Yes, but not many. * It has that other neat trick of being able to run off of electricity purchased off-peak at a significant discount over the cost of gas, real or potential ecological benefits aside. * This, I have to assume, also constitutes testing the waters for the market for such a thing. In other words, for the market to respond to the latent demand for substantially-electric vehicles, some of the demanders have to be given an opportunity to reduce their latency, so to speak. Maybe it's not ready for you (or vice versa), but you don't have to be an early adopter. * Similarly, if I have a vehicle I can partially power from home, and opt to pay my local utility to purchase an equal amount of wind power to offset what I use, that is also a vote-with-dollars for the demand for such technology. So, in more than one area, the Volt (or any plug-in hybrid or electric) is the currently available tool for using the free market to request that this avenue continues to be explored and improved upon. Which sounds a lot more meaningful to me than just pegging the smugometer....

+1

I don't mind paying taxes for education even though I don't have kids. It improves society.

I have no problem with someone buying a Volt to support and further this kind of technology. It may not be the silver bullet, but it is a start, and it flat out works.

Call me smug, or a "greenie" but I'd like to reduce our dependance on oil. Cars like the Volt give us a way to do so.

forzav12 wrote: Considering the various incentives(federal.state and local-depending where you live), the technology is clearly not mature enough to survive in the free market.

modified to reflect my opinion.

and this could also be taken down the path of being another tax break for the wealthy, because only the people who can afford the note on a volt actually get the tax break of buying a volt.

alfadriver wrote: My only issue with the video is how you refer to your place of work. Office should be replace by "World Headquarters".

or eVil lair

I'm of 2 opinions on the tax break. (OK 3)

1) if it has to have a tax break to be competitive then clearly "the technology is clearly not mature enough to survive in the free market."

2) on the other hand since it takes getting some on the hands of the people to get the volume up and the price down then this could help there.

3) BUT is this THE technology of the future? And should it be subsidized?

You've seen the other thread on the liquid fuel for electric cars (liquid electricity)

Since batteries are the limiting force for electric cars maybe the money would better be spent (subsidies) on things like this. True the MIT liquid electricity isn't on the market and the Volt is, but is the Volt on the market just because they can get the subsidies?

You could say the same thing about petroleum. It's pretty heavily subsidized. Is petroleum "not mature enough to survive in the free market?"

carguy123 wrote: I'm of 2 opinions on the tax break. (OK 3) 1) if it has to have a tax break to be competitive then clearly "the technology is clearly not mature enough to survive in the free market."

As Jeff said, petroleum is subsidized as well. So is labor. So is reproducing. So is home ownership. So is....

The list goes on. I don't like targeted tax breaks either, but it isn't in any way reflective of the level of technology, it's just what the aristocracy wants to promote.

You've had your say, we all get it, now let the rest of the world chime in.

If I was in the market for a new car (I am not) and either had a family which could sit in it (I do not) or had a already capable family vehicle (I do!) I would buy one. I can generate electricity myself if needbe - so it's zombie proof, South Carolina has cheap electricity, and my commute would be all electric. Perfect.

AngryCorvair wrote: and this could also be taken down the path of being another tax break for the wealthy, because only the people who can afford the note on a volt actually get the tax break of buying a volt.

EDIT: fixed blockquote stupidity on my part. Also, apparently when I attempt to think a response over, I sit out the entire conversation and everybody else raises the salient points...

It's a fair point, but there are certainly other ways to look at it. Though as much as it makes my head spin, a $33k car isn't exactly high end anymore to the extent that "the wealthy" are the sole market.

Whether one agrees or disagrees with the practice, we subsidize oil companies and corn farmers. In some cases the grounds for the subsidies are to further research into developing access to energy which apparently is untenable to extract based on the current market.

Similarly, the tax breaks offered on the purchase of a Volt allow GM to pursue an expensive technology and compete with the Prius.

With all this opportunity for interpretation, it's arguable that the Volt becomes an opportunity for those well-heeled enough to buy a Volt to share with the government the cost of subsidizing GM's research into new technologies.

The questions about whether any of these subsidies are a good idea is too large for this thread. I know I'm ambivalent. I just wanted to point out that there's seemingly more to the Volt tax break than handing over money.

I'm extremely happy to hear the news about the batteries. The disposal question was one of the strongest arguments against electrics, IMO. Now if we could just muster up the public will to generate power with something other than fossil fuels (my other big concern with these things).

Great review, BTW. The "JG of The Future" thing was hilarious.

There are a lot of vehicles that qualify for a tax credit; clean diesels, hybrids of all sorts, even natural gas powered cars. Shouldering that argument on the Volt doesn't make sense to me.

Also, I want my football phone.