H Street at Solo Nationals

Jaynen wrote: Thanks Harvey. I was basing my Bridgestones concerns over seeing the damage they had on my friends cars from only individual events. Still don't see how with that much damage that they can last 150 runs except under ideal lightweight car with perfect alignment or something but I believe you.

YMMV, these were on a mostly stock S2000 CR which is fairly light at 2800lbs or so, but still not Miata light. You also might use them up faster if the surface you run on is rough. That said, I've seen people do the whole season on one set of tires and then switch out for Nationals whereas I've seen people use multiple sets of Hoosiers during the regular season and then warm up on one set at Nationals and then switch to another set for the event.

With the streets there is really no point in doing that level of silliness since the tires break in and work nicely for quite a while and the optimal tread depth is probably a little less than what it starts with and the compound falls of much less quickly than the Hoosiers.

Edit: Talked with a friend who is a multi time national champ. He used two sets of tires and neither are used up, he trophied in AS at nationals in his Z06 Vette and did multiple national events and pro solos.

I keep hearing of this proposed "I Street" class. Is that the one where everybody says "I want to win in MY [insert lackluster] car regardless of my inadequate driving, preparation, funding, and desire"?

oldsaw wrote: I keep hearing of this proposed "I Street" class. Is that the one where everybody says "I want to win in MY [insert lackluster] car regardless of my inadequate driving, preparation, funding, and desire"?

Yes!

I want an I Street class because I want to win in my Mazda 2 regardless of my inadequate driving, preparation, funding and desire.

Harvey wrote:

Jaynen wrote: Thanks Harvey. I was basing my Bridgestones concerns over seeing the damage they had on my friends cars from only individual events. Still don't see how with that much damage that they can last 150 runs except under ideal lightweight car with perfect alignment or something but I believe you.

YMMV, these were on a mostly stock S2000 CR which is fairly light at 2800lbs or so, but still not Miata light. You also might use them up faster if the surface you run on is rough. That said, I've seen people do the whole season on one set of tires and then switch out for Nationals whereas I've seen people use multiple sets of Hoosiers during the regular season and then warm up on one set at Nationals and then switch to another set for the event. With the streets there is really no point in doing that level of silliness since the tires break in and work nicely for quite a while and the optimal tread depth is probably a little less than what it starts with and the compound falls of much less quickly than the Hoosiers. Edit: Talked with a friend who is a multi time national champ. He used two sets of tires and neither are used up, he trophied in AS at nationals in his Z06 Vette and did multiple national events and pro solos.

This is what the National Champion DSL cars tires looked like from one day at nationals. This was a fresh set

That's OPR build up (Other People's Rubber. Nationals is notorious for it with the amount of people running), not tire wear. The tread still looks good.

Spoolpigeon wrote: That's OPR build up (Other People's Rubber. Nationals is notorious for it with the amount of people running), not tire wear. The tread still looks good.

Exactly. The OPR was heavy at nationals, people were scraping between runs. Doesn't affect the tire in the end. Scrape that off and the tire is fine.

We had similar amounts of build up on the fiesta, but only on the rears. I suppose the fronts have enough under steer to scrub the OPR off. It peels off, but we found the tire cleaning circle to be much quicker than peeling it all off by hand.

drdisque wrote: Yes, the rules last year opened up a lot of interesting possibilities for HS: newer Civic SI, GSR, SER Spec V, Mk 3 Supra Non-Turbo. However, it seems with the FiST hitting the scene, nobody has taken up those options seriously in a national effort. The HART guys brought one of their SI's to the Ohio tour events but didn't really have their best drivers in it so it didn't really show what it could do. There are a lot more powerful cars in HS now, but most of them have so little front tire and no LSD that it's pretty useless on most autocross courses. However, with an awesome driver and a big wide nationals style course, maybe you could make some waves in a TL Type-S or a well put together SVT Contour.

I still think that a pre 2009 Mazda6 2.3 would be a great, inexpensive choice...and is often overlooked. I had an '07 that I used a couple times when my ZX2 was down. I once managed to beat Todd Freeman (who was in a Mini at the time--4th at Nats this year)...he was on XS's at the time and I was on SPTs and worn stock shocks (we were running on a street tire index). The 6 has front wishbones and has a 17x7 wheel, that holds a 225 nicely. Its not so overpowering where the lack of a LSD is a liability...but still has plenty of torque.

oldsaw wrote: I keep hearing of this proposed "I Street" class. Is that the one where everybody says "I want to win in MY [insert lackluster] car regardless of my inadequate driving, preparation, funding, and desire"?

Yup. Sign me up.

The Bridgestones wear pretty heavily at full tread since there's a decent amount of tread squirm with how soft the compound is. However, once you get past the first couple 32nds, the wear really levels off. Folks in my region with BS Vettes get 120+ runs on theirs (and they trophied at Nationals). I've been considering jumping classes for next year, and HS looks pretty interesting. I've crunched numbers on the Spec-V. Same weight as the FiST, same power, mechanical diff, but 2nd gearing topping out at 52-ish for me is a non-starter. The 06-10 Civic Si's are also very enticing. More power, slightly more weight, also a diff, and 2nd gear IIRC is around 60, which is great. The 11+ cars have the same gearing, but the K24 has a significantly lower redline so the gearing is once again, poor. I'm sure there are other contenders as well. Should my current car sell I would love to try the Civic.

FSP_ZX2 wrote:

drdisque wrote: Yes, the rules last year opened up a lot of interesting possibilities for HS: newer Civic SI, GSR, SER Spec V, Mk 3 Supra Non-Turbo. However, it seems with the FiST hitting the scene, nobody has taken up those options seriously in a national effort. The HART guys brought one of their SI's to the Ohio tour events but didn't really have their best drivers in it so it didn't really show what it could do. There are a lot more powerful cars in HS now, but most of them have so little front tire and no LSD that it's pretty useless on most autocross courses. However, with an awesome driver and a big wide nationals style course, maybe you could make some waves in a TL Type-S or a well put together SVT Contour.

I still think that a pre 2009 Mazda6 2.3 would be a great, inexpensive choice...and is often overlooked. I had an '07 that I used a couple times when my ZX2 was down. I once managed to beat Todd Freeman (who was in a Mini at the time--4th at Nats this year)...he was on XS's at the time and I was on SPTs and worn stock shocks (we were running on a street tire index). The 6 has front wishbones and has a 17x7 wheel, that holds a 225 nicely. Its not so overpowering where the lack of a LSD is a liability...but still has plenty of torque.

The V6 Mazda 6 is now legal for HS. It's too heavy to be competitive in HS. However, I feel that it would be a very competitive STF car if properly built. I owned one and was facing a full consumables refresh (serpentine belt, brakes, clutch)+coilovers+camber plates+new wheels+new tires+exhaust to make the car competitive in STF and decided for what that cost, I'd just buy a BMW.

The stock springs on the 6 are pretty soft when pushed too. I didn't find the car fun to drive on most courses due to its size, weight bias, and amount of weight transfer.

If you wanted a 2.3 powered car, then choose the lighter 3.

I know its tangent info but thanks for all the insight into the Bridgestones, they just look trashed when you first use them

In reply to KevinLG:

There's an STX 8th gen Civic Si locally that's getting FTD RAW. Stomping all over everybody. Including top 5 cars from last year's Canadian Nationals

I remember back in the late '90's when I was running my MR2 Turbo in AS I would go through a set of Khumos every event. Of course you had to start with them shaved to have a chance of winning. Tires today are not quite that bad yet.

To be honest, I have heard about classing since I started. In the '80's it was why can't I have a class for my Fiat 850 instead of having to race the Corollas, or my MGB can't hand with the MR2s. There's always going to be a newer, faster car, and they have to go somewhere.

Locally, It's easier to be competitive, but a National event, that should be where the best compete for a championship, and you know what, it takes a lot of time and effort. I've been there and lost, but I did drive a multi-time national championship car, and I know what they put into it. If you or I are not willing to do the same, we need to understand we aren't going to win.

Jaynen wrote: I know its tangent info but thanks for all the insight into the Bridgestones, they just look trashed when you first use them

The actual concern with the street tires is that in the two years since the SCCA switched to 200 treadwear street tires the tire companies have managed to come out each year with tires that best the previous year's tires by a significant margin. So, we've still ended up having to buy tires every year to be competitive.

That said, they do last a lot longer and are way more practical than running Hoosiers. I for one always hated changing tires and will probably never leave street unless someone else prepares the car.

Regarding tires, I think that no matter what anyone proposes, what is to stop tire companies from constantly pushing the envelope other than spec rubber?

Also, don't forget that regions are free to modify/create classes as needed to cater to their locals. Check out rule 4.8.C:

Regional Class: Any class not listed in these Solo® Rules but created by a Region or other entity for local purposes.

And, yeah, I do remember when H Stock cars made a bit less than 200 horsepower. When I started autocrossing, our local HS champ ran a base model Omni. How weird is it that a CRX Si is now in HS?

Harvey wrote:

Jaynen wrote: I know its tangent info but thanks for all the insight into the Bridgestones, they just look trashed when you first use them

The actual concern with the street tires is that in the two years since the SCCA switched to 200 treadwear street tires the tire companies have managed to come out each year with tires that best the previous year's tires by a significant margin. So, we've still ended up having to buy tires every year to be competitive. That said, they do last a lot longer and are way more practical than running Hoosiers. I for one always hated changing tires and will probably never leave street unless someone else prepares the car.

Which is partially why when it came to buy tires for my miata i just went straight to RC-1s as my car sees minimal street use

DanielCut wrote: I want an I Street class because I want to win in my Mazda 2 regardless of my inadequate driving, preparation, funding and desire.

There is literally nothing in this thread that would make a newcomer want to autocross more than they did before they read this thread.

Also, haha, funny jokes! etc.

David S. Wallens wrote: Regarding tires, I think that no matter what anyone proposes, what is to stop tire companies from constantly pushing the envelope other than spec rubber?

Nothing, that's the problem.

There were only two tires to run though, the RE71R or the Rival S so you aren't far off from a spec tire.

There is some advantage to switching to street tires in that you don't go through them nearly as fast as rcomps and you can drive to the event on them, but if the tire companies get stickier street rubber out there each year then winning tires at events becomes less worthwhile since two sets will get you through a whole season and if you can't sell the tires off to competitors because it's no longer the hot tire and you don't end up using them because it's not the hot tire you're left dropping them on the open market.

Can you choose any BFG or Bridgestone tire when you win tires? I've never won.