Harness mounting options / will this pass tech at an autocross

I’m in the process of installing a new seat and harness in my Mazda 2 that I have been running in STF for the past year. They’ll be in place for the next event (which is an SCCA champ tour) and I want to make sure I don’t run into any issues with safety/tech.

I mounted the shoulder straps to the stock seat belt bolts underneath the rear seat and ran the belts up and over like so:

This seems to be the way I’ve seen it done before, but it’s going to be a hassle to get them in and out quickly. Also – the belts are barely long enough the way it sits now.

My question is: Am I allowed to use a snap hook connector and snap the belts into either the baby seat attachment on the back of the rear seats, or the metal bar the seat itself snaps into? Look at this photo to see what I’m talking about:

I’d like to go with the higher mounting location as it gives the belts a better angle and gives me a little more slack to play with. It would also take about 5 seconds to install and uninstall. I leaned all of my weight on that metal bar and it doesn’t budge. I’m just curious if that would pass tech. I posted this on my local SCCA board, but haven't gotten much for responses yet.

Thanks, Yavuz

Spine wise, that's not a great idea.

And, on a side note, I think those latch anchors for the child seats are only rated to 65 pounds.

Nope that won't pass tech...and it's probably not a good idea either.

Leaning your weight on it probably doesn't count, unless you weigh about 4200 lbs.

You need a harness bar, really.
They're pretty cheap and fast/east to install.

I have used that set-up in my FX16 back in the 80's and early 90's. I would never do it again! As stated above, it will compress your spine if things go wrong.

Go with the harness bar.

I'd consider using a Schroth Harness with ASM (and did in the past). They can be bolted to the rear seat belt mounts as shown in the OP.

http://www.schrothracing.com/tuning/rallye/rallye-4

I loosely work with some belt stuff, and did some diving on data for different mounts in another thread regarding baby seat mounts and someone else dove in the source I provided and found what (we think) is the requirements for the seatback latch. (pasted meat of it below).

I hate coming across as a belt-nazi, but this type of thing should be thought through before blindly implemented. Its one thing to build something unsafe and know about it, its another to build something you think is safe and get surprised by it.

(Copy/paste from the 2014 Fiesta ST Thread)

The requirement for the child anchorages is something like 5,000-10,000N (depending on type/type of test) whereas the requirement for seat belt anchorages is 13,000-22,000N (again, depending on type of belt/type of test)

See 571.210 and 571.225 here http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=e0247773b675f988e674bf5f260cca89&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title49/49cfr571_main_02.tpl

Better. I'd still do a bit more research on the strength of the seat back latch/stay. What is the load limit on the lifting shackle you're using?

According to apexcarver's link - here (I think) is the gov. regulation regarding the rear seat's restraining device - copied below.

"S4.3.2 Performance of restraining device.

S4.3.2.1 Static force. (a) Once engaged, the restraining device for a forward-facing seat shall not release or fail when a forward longitudinal force, in newtons, equal to 20 times the mass of the hinged or folding portion of the seat in kilograms multiplied by 9.8 is applied through the center of gravity of that portion of the seat.

(b) Once engaged, the restraining device for a rearward-facing seat shall not release or fail when a rearward longitudinal force, in newtons, equal to 8 times the mass of the hinged or folding portion of the seat in kilograms multiplied by 9.8 is applied through the center of gravity of that portion of the seat.

S4.3.2.2 Acceleration. Once engaged, the restraining device shall not release or fail when the device is subjected to an acceleration of 20 g., in the longitudinal direction opposite to that in which the seat folds."

I thought this was a fake noob joke post when I first looked at it.

Then, I thought of this...

Before y'all start spouting off about 'not legal', go read 3.3.1 in the rule book. All he needs to be lagal is a lap belt.

In reply to Rad_Capz: I got one of those and used it for the first time this past weekend (at an autoX). It held me in to the stock seat just fine. Actually might get some shoulder belt pads as it hurts the collarbones a bit. Very easy install. 6 bolts and done.

Thanks for the replies! Just to be clear - I'm aware that none of the options I presented are the proper way to do it. I would never drive the car on the street or on a track the way I have the belts in my original photo. I'm not as worried about it for an autocross - I just need to be held in place.

I've seen several regulars at events have them set up like my original photo, so I think that is probably legal, although not the best way to do it. Wasn't sure about the 2 other points, but now I realize that it was probably a stupid question.

I'll look into bolt-in harness bars, or simply just running a lap belt while autocrossing.

Yavuz wrote: Just to be clear - I'm aware that none of the options I presented are the proper way to do it. I would never drive the car on the street or on a track the way I have the belts in my original photo. I'm not as worried about it for an autocross - I just need to be held in place.

Umm...?

I don't...?

Are you...?

Never mind.

http://www.cg-lock.com/autocross.html

Or steal one of these from a baby:

I have seen cars hit trees in an auto-x (not best course setup, and a really dumb driver attempt at recovery), but E36 M3 does happen. I'd rather use the stock belt than improperly mounted harnesses any day.

Schroth actually makes "fitted" ASM seat belts which one half of the harness bolts into the pivot for your rear lap seat belt (structural near door) and the other half simply uses the female receiver in the center. The lap belt uses the same mounting (bolt with stock belt near door; use existing female receiver in center). Everything except the bolts come out when you're done autocrossing (buckles FTW).

I've helped install a "Mini" one in a Cobalt SS and fitment was wonderful. Everything is structural and adjustable. As long as the rear seat "butt-level" is the same in the Mazda 2 and the bolts are same diameter, they should fit.

In reply to bgkast:

I have actually used both a CG lock and the baby seat locking clip before. Both work pretty well and are definitely a good option for the factory belts.

I already had the seat and the harness kicking around from my Miata (where yes, everything was installed safely) so I picked up a seat base for cheap and figured I'd throw it all into the 2 whenever I take it autocrossing.

I cant seem to find any harness bars for a Mazda 2 so until I find a better solution it'll have to stay as is or I'll see how it feels to run it with just a lap belt.

I see that the stock belt is still there on the b-pillar.
Is the concern with the aftermarket belt that the bolting in the rear may come loose?
If so, is driving with both the aftermarket belts attached and then the factory belt latched over that a possibility? Does this then provide factory protection in the event that the aftermarket might fail?

The stock belt is still there, but the receiver for said belt is not. It's still bolted to, and wired up to, the stock seat and it'd be a hassle to transfer it back and forth.

The way I've run it now - there is no way anything is coming loose. It's bolted in through the stock seat belt bolts in the rear. My problem is that its a pain to bolt in and bolt out whenever I head to an event. The more safety conscious are worried about the angle of the belts themselves. They are right, of course, but I'm not too concerned about autocrossing it in a wide open airfield. The issue with bolting it to the rear seat latch is that the whole thing may rip apart in the event of a crash.

If you want to be held tighter during autocross, try this:

Get in the car. Move the seat back a couple of clicks. Before latching the seat belt, twist the lap and shoulder belts a few rotations at the latch end. Move the seat back to your normal driving position.

He can't use the stock belts. The clicky end is attached to the stock seat, which isn't in the car.
I can't see any reason you wouldn't pass tech like you are. You meet both the letter and the spirit of the rules.

In reply to mazdeuce:

After a little more research, it looks like I wouldn't meet the letter of the rules after all.

"Seat belt receivers integral to standard seats do not have an allowance for deletion and must be maintained if replacement seats are installed."

I'm sure no one would care at local events, but I'll play by the rules for this champ tour and just leave the stock seat in it for now.

What section is that in?

What section is that in?

I am pretty sure lap belt are OK if they are the factory lap belt system.

Any after market setup has to play by different rules.

For example, expiration dates are meaningless on OEM belts. I can run a 50 year old belt legally.

But an after market...not so much.

But I don't have the rules in front of me.