Head/Neck support

I believe ChumpCar and Lemons both require either HANS devices or foam collars. While I was shopping for the latter, I noticed that they're all marketed as "helmet supports" to reduce fatigue, not as safety devices. Is that just them covering their asses or are these things really worthless? Or am I looking at the wrong thing?

A foam collar offers no real protection. Use a HANS, NecksGen, Simpson etc.

I've spent more on safety then go fast bits.

Been using a HANS since day one. 2 years before my group made it a requirement.

This yr I added arm restraints my setup.

What's the cheapest one can get into one for? I always toss the collar behind the seat.

Well you just missed a cyber monday deal, I got one for 30% off. You are looking around $550 -$600 new for the cheapest ones that meet the sfi 38.1 standard.

They all seem to be price controlled in the $600 range for the economy/heavy versions.

sachilles wrote: They all seem to be price controlled in the $600 range for the economy/heavy versions.

The motocross ones were like that until there were a bunch of manufacturers in the game. Now you can get one for under $100

Simpson owns the devices evolved from hutchens and they just bought Hans. The other one on the market is Necksgen. Not really enough competition to drive the prices down, unless Simpson wants to kill of Necksgen by submarining their prices substantially.

steronz wrote: I believe ChumpCar and Lemons both require either HANS devices or foam collars. While I was shopping for the latter, I noticed that they're all marketed as "helmet supports" to reduce fatigue, not as safety devices. Is that just them covering their asses or are these things really worthless? Or am I looking at the wrong thing?

one of the classroom instructors with NASA-SE is a trauma room Doc. his opinion of the foam collars was that they were junk

I use a foam collar, because on a short oval tracks where I usually race the speeds are relatively low and there is less chance of a head on impact. I seldom see more than 140 km/h. I do think if I am really moving when I hit something substantial, it will stop my head from whipping around. But if the speeds are high enough, then my head will travel forward until my chin compresses the collar to some degree. Then the chin area of my head will stop moving, but the back of my head will try to continue its forward trajectory, and the forces of momentum will create a lever and perhaps my head will attempt to separate from my spinal column. But how fast do you have to be moving to achieve that effect? I am guessing much higher than what a typical weekend warrior would ever see, whether on a road course or an oval.

I don't see how the berkeley that's a $600 piece. I need a new "next business." Perhaps this is the answer. Assuming it's lightweight plastic rather than CF, I gotta think there's a decent margin at $150 a crack. Patent pending patent pending patent pending.

I've yet to be on fire, on my head, or suffer a basal skull fracture while in my race car. Or for that matter a student car at a HPDE.

All of this said - safety equipment is pay-to-play. Like Hoosiers or sports racer parts from the UK.

I can't imagine what the insurance costs are associated with selling stuff that helps people not die, irrespective of what boilerplate warnings ship with the product.

I didn't like dropping over a G on my new helmet and HANS the beginning of the 2011 season, but if I'd needed either when I stuffed that tire wall going about 60mph I'd have been pretty well pleased.

I dunno. My new fancy helmet came with a pretty healthy written disclaimer that included the words "Like scrambling an egg inside the shell." I seriously doubt the $600 a crack is due to legal costs.

I better not burn in this goddamned suit by the way!

poopshovel wrote: I dunno. My new fancy helmet came with a pretty healthy written disclaimer that included the words "Like scrambling an egg inside the shell." I seriously doubt the $600 a crack is due to legal costs.

Dude, we got the same helmet

The prices are that way because so many series make it mandatory, and there are only a few suppliers. It will change.

I have one of the Rage R3 devices and while it meets the requirements so I pass tech and it does hold my head on my torso... it is a block of berkeleying plastic and some seat belt material hooked to some berkeleying dog leash clips. $600 my ass. Safety equipment is such a a berkeleying racket. Don't even get me started on all the things a HANS does NOT protect you from that a halo seat would -

Oh, and guess what - they used to last forever. Now, to keep certified we have to send them back for "recertification" every 5yrs for a "modest" fee. You know... now that they can't charge $1000 each for a bracket, some straps and a sticker. All we really needed was a waiver saying "In the highly unlikely event that I hit some E36 M3 head-on in a club race at some tremendous velocity in my slow berkeleying car - I waive my right to sue your ass because I ripped my own brain stem out of my head". And so, here we are - buying new nets, belts and neck straps at silly money every arbitrary revenue interval. The first one of you that says "...but the UVs..." gets to try to break my 10yr old window net by resisting being dragged behind my truck while tied to a post with an expired seat belt.

Sorry. I have issues.

Just for informative puposes: Years ago I was in an accident and went from 40 mph to 0 mph prettymuch instantly. Serious neck and back injuries and a little research showed that there was 25 G's deceleration. You don't have to be going very fast to get some serious forces working.

Don49 wrote: Just for informative puposes: Years ago I was in an accident and went from 40 mph to 0 mph prettymuch instantly. Serious neck and back injuries and a little research showed that there was 25 G's deceleration. You don't have to be going very fast to get some serious forces working.

I am not doubting the effectiveness of tethering your head to your torso for a head-on collision situation. I am not even bitching too much about mandating that you have to do it. I am ranting about the cost of such a thing and now, the "recertification" for a slab of plastic or CF and some straps. SFI is a cartel that generates recurring revenue for people who pay for it's stickers. Those motherberkeleyers have their hands in my pocket with artificial bullE36 M3. Simpson had the right idea... only he should have just sold the stickers directly out the back door rather than misleading customers.

One issue I do actually have with the never ending pursuit of mandates to keep me safe in spite of myself is I find it difficult to climb out of a sedan from a full halo seat, 6pt harness with dual netting hanging all over the place and a freaking horse collar on. I practice but hanging upside-down I imagine it to be more difficult. Something that saves me from a low percentage crash situation but puts me at risk of getting trapped in a burning car is a mixed bag at best. I pre-date hockey helmets in the NHL though so it is possible that I have a higher level of personal risk acceptance than the modern zeitgeist calls for.

You're not wrong (because I agree with you 100%), and you should be pissed. It's a total scam. The problem is the sheeple. They never question it, and give you a hard time if you even think about it.

You should start racing motocross with me. No tech inspections, no helmet checks, and you can pretty much race with a helmet and pair of work boots and not much else

Question: How do you eliminate head injuries in the NHL? Take the helmets, and the instigator penalty away at the same time.

I suspect the price is not so much a scam as it is the very high price of the certification process, and the liability insurance.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Don49 wrote: Just for informative puposes: Years ago I was in an accident and went from 40 mph to 0 mph prettymuch instantly. Serious neck and back injuries and a little research showed that there was 25 G's deceleration. You don't have to be going very fast to get some serious forces working.

I am not doubting the effectiveness of tethering your head to your torso for a head-on collision situation. I am not even bitching too much about mandating that you have to do it. I am ranting about the cost of such a thing and now, the "recertification" for a slab of plastic or CF and some straps. SFI is a cartel that generates recurring revenue for people who pay for it's stickers. Those motherberkeleyers have their hands in my pocket with artificial bullE36 M3. Simpson had the right idea... only he should have just sold the stickers directly out the back door rather than misleading customers. One issue I do actually have with the never ending pursuit of mandates to keep me safe in spite of myself is I find it difficult to climb out of a sedan from a full halo seat, 6pt harness with dual netting hanging all over the place and a freaking horse collar on. I practice but hanging upside-down I imagine it to be more difficult. Something that saves me from a low percentage crash situation but puts me at risk of getting trapped in a burning car is a mixed bag at best. I pre-date hockey helmets in the NHL though so it is possible that I have a higher level of personal risk acceptance than the modern zeitgeist calls for.

I do think they cost more because of certification standards and the like, rather than the device itself. I see both sides of your issue, especially as a hockey player. I'm a goalie. I don't need anyone to tell me to wear a cup, nor a mask. Yet, back in the day someone had to decide it was a good idea to put that equipment on. I also don't want to use safety equipment without some reasonable expectation that there is some science and engineering behind them. So while production costs might be low, development and testing costs might be higher.

Zomby Woof wrote: You're not wrong (because I agree with you 100%), and you should be pissed. It's a total scam. The problem is the sheeple. They never question it, and give you a hard time if you even think about it.

I know they're overpriced, but I still bought one. A philosophical objection wouldn't do squat to heal a cervical fracture.

I used a foam neck collar for my first couple races, but switched to a HANS when it became clear that I wasn't going to stop racing any time soon. $600 well spent.

One reason they're so expensive: It's patented and will remain so until 2017, IIRC. I predict that they will get stupidly cheap when the patent expires, and everyone starts making them.