Help Me Find a Race Car!

Meanwhile, the auction on the Alfa ends today and it's only at...

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-alfa-romeo-giulietta-spider-super-veloce/

In reply to bravenrace:

If that car sells for that low, I'll have to hold onto my car for a while longer, apparently.

I sold a 59 Spider Veloce and 60 Sprint that were both very incomplete projects a couple of years ago for $28k. A driver for less than that- regardless that it's a race car, is pretty good right now.

In reply to alfadriver:

It may have a reserve. I haven't figured out how to tell with these BAT auctions, but on some cars they state that there is no reserve, so I wonder if everything has a reserve if it doesn't state otherwise? Some people in the comments section said that the car was worth a lot more, and there was debate about whether to keep it a race car (I would) or restore it to stock.

In reply to bravenrace:

The arguments about returning it to stock are tough. For it to be valuable at $100k, it needs the correct powertrain, which it does not. And ALL of the trim- which it does have some of the more rare parts.

The nice thing about the car is that it's not cut up. And if the owner has the original front windshield and hardware- it's not a hard restoration. The engine is the hard part.

But I see the value like you do- a period race car with real history. Plenty of Ferrari's are kept as race cars just because of that. Heck, can even find a close original engine to be more correct. (engines and chassis never matched actual S/Ns, so if one can get reasonably close in a range, that's generally accepted.)

None the less- that Turner looks quite inviting.

In reply to alfadriver:

Woody was kind enough to offer to go look at the Turner for me. I think he may be going tomorrow.
Regarding the Alfa, I know it's not the original engine, but is also not the correct type?

Here's another MGA.

http://www.gullwingsearch.com/1957MGA.cfm

Vitrikas wrote a book a long time ago on the history and restoration of MGAs. Back before there were many books on the subject.

Here is a Spitfire that is closer to your budget, but a long way away from you. I think I was on the track with this car, but I don't really remember it.

http://race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1434219719/1434219719ss.htm

bravenrace wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Woody was kind enough to offer to go look at the Turner for me. I think he may be going tomorrow. Regarding the Alfa, I know it's not the original engine, but is also not the correct type?

No, the ad says that it's a 105 series engine, and this one should be a very special 750 series 1300. While the same displacement, the 1300 Veloce is a very hard engine to find, and unique to the 750/101 Giulietta Veloce's.

Looks like the car sold for $35k.

First the gang at GRM should do an article on this quest lots of great information for anyone looking for a vintage car. CM did do a feature but it was generalized.

The MGA looks nice but what is it vintage racers have against proper high back race seats. Yes I know the low back things look "proper" but I'd rather be safe.

The Spitfire looks decent but again first thing on my list would be the seat and getting rid of the rancid welded rear end, they are awful but even more so in low powered cars......not that it would stop me from buying a car.

Tom

In reply to Basil Exposition:

Damn, that MGA looks nice! I may have to look into that one. Thanks! The Spit looks really good for the price. Only problem there is that I'd have to buy it sight unseen and have it shipped.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to bravenrace: If that car sells for that low, I'll have to hold onto my car for a while longer, apparently. I sold a 59 Spider Veloce and 60 Sprint that were both very incomplete projects a couple of years ago for $28k. A driver for less than that- regardless that it's a race car, is pretty good right now.

Sold for $35K. I don't know enough about old Alfas to know if that's good or bad or how it relates to the asking price of your car.

Hopefully the Turner works out. That would be a neat race car.

I raced a TVR Grantura for awhile - the Mk 3 or 4 cars are great for racing; previous ones had much inferior suspension consisting of VW torsion set ups both front and rear.

I've been racing an MGA for the last 4 decades and can recommend them as one of the easiest cars to set up for very decent handling. Get a later 1600 model or convert to front discs. The last Mk 2 1600 engines are the most durable.

This is my car - DOHC version with 4 wheel discs.

Okay, this one is a long shot, but I just saw this on BAT. I've already emailed the seller for more pics and info. What do you guys think, based on the info given? It looks like its exactly what I want.
If it looks good, is anyone in that area that could look at it for me?

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/5100768262.html

Again, not much to go on. If it was truly built from scratch by Speedwell that is a major bargain, especially since the trailer is included. I'd guess that price is less than a third of what it cost to build. Could also be that Speedwell just did part of the preparation...

The overbore could be a problem, though, depending on the vintage organization. 1380's are illegal in most, though enforcement is a joke. Some clubs might bump you up a class if they figure it out, while others might just ignore it. SVRA requires an engine certification and might let you run it a few events before they may you change it, for example.

Without knowing what else has been done, there may be similar issues with other items. I have no idea what VARA rules are.

Sitting for three years won't mean much in California, I don't think. Worst case is they left fuel in it and the fuel system will need rebuilding. Fuel cell foam tends to deteriorate, so at least that will need to be replaced, though it doesn't cost much.

Your issue will be jumping on it quick enough and transporting it, I would think. I expect it will go quickly.

If I remember correctly the aforementioned Sprite runs VARAs GT-Lite, the same class I run, which allows for larger motors. In this case up to 2 liters. It's basically a catch all class that allows cars modded beyond traditional production or sedan rules to run.

Post 72 IMSA and FIA rules opened up. We put our car together 25 years ago using the GT-5 rules, the car uses a mix of the old C-sedan parts and GT5 parts. There are lots of cars like this so it makes sense for vintage groups to make a place for them.

Back on topic; I'm pretty sure I have run against this car back in 2010 or 11 and I do seem to recall it ran well.

Tom

In reply to bravenrace:

Send a PM to wearymicrobe maybe?

This is a car from one of the friends of triumph group

Nice looking spit

Okay, what do you have to say about this one? (The bodywork is not a problem for me):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291558546406?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I know a little about this car. I met the (then) owner about 10 years ago at a SVRA event-- I think it was the Mitty? He has a shop in Florida called Scuderia Silvestri. I still have a luggage tag he gave me with that name on it.

I think I saw it for sale some years ago and I expect that the current seller is someone else.

Here's my take:-

Looks like a car that has sat for a long time. I'd want to know when it was last raced. If it has sat, then you've got all the things you might have to do to a street car that has sat-- brakes, fuel lines, etc., plus you've possibly got expired belts, new race tires to buy, maybe a refresh on the fuel cell. Obviously, "excellent condition" is a lie (I mean, it has body damage from a wreck, for god's sake!) and I'd expect that "ready to race" is probably one, too.

The listing information seems to be written by someone that is either unfamiliar with the car or hasn't really raced it much since he purchased it. It could be that he purchased it from Silvestri with the idea of going racing, maybe had the engine work done, then set it aside for some reason. Or maybe went to a couple of races, blew up the motor, or spun the car and hit the wall (resulting damage) and got scared.

I say that because the information doesn't really address the things a racer would want to know (like the stuff in the first paragraph) and talks instead about "bronze rockers," which is nonsensical. Perhaps he is referring to bronze-colored roller rockers, or he is confusing bronze valve guides with something else. In addition the term "competition clutch" could mean a lot of things, none of which are defined. The Avons are obviously not "slicks," etc., etc. Slicks wouldn't be legal, anyhow. In any case, you've got perhaps an unsophisticated seller with a car that might not have been taken care of very well.

The unrepaired bashed headlight and the rear body damage seem to confirm that the seller is tired of this thing and wants it gone.

That aside, under the hood the preparation looks really good. Belying the stock-looking exterior, there's quite a bit of fab work under the hood that shows some attention to detail and an experienced, sophisticated builder.

It is unusual in vintage racing to see spridgets like this with the stock padded dash, all the exterior lighting and the other stock stuff. Not that that is bad. Some organizations encourage such things and give extra points for keeping them. Others require that you do. Provided there isn't anything under the car that is wonky (coil-overs, tube shocks) this is probably a car that would be accepted by any vintage racing organization.

At least he shows a partial receipt for some of the work, so perhaps the engine work is solid, though if hasn't been run it probably still needs sorting.

Besides the above, if I were buying I'd want to know: What has been done to the suspension-- sway bar, rear sway bar, panhard bar, springs, lowering, shocks, wheels? Rear diff ratio, double-bearing hubs, upgraded axles? Spares? Brakes (type and condition)? What cam, pistons (overbore, compression ratio), rods, crank, flywheel, who did the work?

All in all, if you were to get it at the right price it could be a car that doesn't need a lot to get it going. It has "good bones" as they say and the majority of the expensive stuff has been done, particularly the straight-cut transmission (condition?) and the engine work. I wouldn't pay a lot more than the minimum bid, though, unless you can assure yourself that it is closer to "race ready" than it looks. It looks like maybe a $5k to (max) $6k car as it sits and with the unknowns involved. Maybe a bit more depending upon the answers to a lot of questions.

In reply to Basil Exposition:

VERY good information - Thanks!

In reply to Basil Exposition:

What do you think of this one?

http://www.gullwingsearch.com/BillMGB.cfm

buddy of mine just got done doing an Austin Healey with a Triumph motor

I can ask if he wants to sell it

1964 Austin Healey Race Car- SCCA-CVAR - $5800 (Corpus Christi)

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5211067557.html

In reply to Gasoline:

Not interested in flared SCCA cars, as they usually need to have the flares removed to be vintage eligible (or so I've heard). Its too far away anyway, but thanks just the same!

bravenrace wrote: In reply to Basil Exposition: What do you think of this one? http://www.gullwingsearch.com/BillMGB.cfm

That looks like a nice one at a really good price. I don't know the name, but he is evidently a member of the Killer Bees, which is a loose knit group of MGB racers in the north. All highly experienced and knowledgeable guys. I'd jump on that one, if I were you. Looks turn-key, well-proven, and you could not duplicate it for anywhere near that number. I particularly like the roll cage work.