Help me pick a tow vehicle

So I need to start towing the S2000 to autocrosses, so I'm starting to think a tow vehicle is in my future. I've never had a truck/suv/whatever so I'd like to see what you guys think are good choices to look at. I'll basically drive the S2000 to the local events without towing, and the national tours/prosolos/national championships I'll tow to. So basically I'll tow to and from maybe 5 events a year, 4 of which are within a 500 mile radius and one which is about 1300 miles away. I live in PA.

The maximum budget is probably $15k-$17k, including the trailer. I'd prefer to spend closer to 12k or so but if I get a lot for my money I can afford to spend a little more. I might be convinced to spend even more than $17k still if people think it's warranted, but I'd really rather not - that would probably involve selling the miata and going to only 2 cars.

I think our car situation will be: S2000 (street legal but too stiff for more than a short trip), miata (more street friendly), and tow vehicle. The tow vehicle will therefore be used for: 1) Towing 5 times a year as I mentioned 2) Daily driving 3) Long trips where we want something comfy or have more than a golf bag worth of luggage, lol 4) Home Depot trips - lumber, etc 5) Snowboarding trips

We only have myself and my fiance - there are no plans for kids. I'd like to be able to take two more people in a pinch, so I'd like to have something where two adults could sit in the back for an hour without being permanently squished, haha. But that'd be rare so it doesn't have to be comfy back there. I guess it'd be a plus to be able to sit 4 people comfortably but it's not a priority.

I'd like this thing to be very reliable and not a ton of work, so I'm thinking 70,000 miles or less, and less than 7 years old. Even newer is a big plus. I am very capable in the garage but I've had no time recently so not having to work on it much would be great.

Gas mileage is important obviously, but I'm not too concerned about it. We both have a 5 mile drive to work, so we don't rack up a ton of miles. I'd estimate this thing would get 8,000 miles a year. So I'd like to not get the worst gas guzzler possible, but getting the most fuel efficient possibility at the expense of other more important things is not what I'm after.

Ride quality is a big plus, since this would be our long trip car. Something relatively quiet and relatively nice ride would be a huge plus. Right now our long trip car is my Integra Type R, so I guess this won't be that hard comparatively.

We'd be towing an open trailer with an S2000 that's probably 2650 lbs. Don't want to spend a lot on a trailer so right now I'm thinking an econotrailer at 1500 lbs or whatever. Plus I'll probably keep one or two sets of wheels/tires on the trailer, so that's another 200-300 lbs. So we'll say 4500 lbs loaded trailer. Then in the car we'd have the two of us plus stuff for a few days, so say 500-800 lbs of weight in there I guess.

So what are some options. Right now I'm thinking an extended cab full size pickup like an F150 or a silverado or Ram 1500 is probably my best bet - what do you think? I was also considering something more crossover SUV/pickup like a chevy avalanche or a GMC Envoy XUV.

Any thoughts or input are greatly appreciated.

Could also look at the full-size GM Wagons/Sedans (Caprice/Roadmaster/etc). I think if you can find one with the tow package, they were rated to tow 5k lbs with the 350. And in your budget, you can be VERY choosy.

Other options I'd look at would be Fords with the 7.3L Powerstroke (E/F-250/350).

don't know if you would be interested, but my boss has a F350 Turbo Diesel Dually for sale. Think its an 04', 200K on it, top end has been rebuilt. Think he will let it go for $12k or best offer. Don't know if this is up your alley...

How's the ride quality and noise on the F250/350, compared to a lighter duty truck like the 150? I would think it would be harsher and louder, am I wrong about that? And we don't need the extra capacity...even an F150 with a tow package is overkill for what we need to tow, right?

As for the caprice...good suggestion, but probably not for me. I'd like to have more room to put some extra weight there, plus I'd like to be able to get plywood and whatnot. I'd rather not have something with a tow rating of 5000 since I could see it getting a little over that, and I don't want to be right at my limit.

IntegraR0064 wrote: Ride quality is a big plus, since this would be our long trip car. Something relatively quiet and relatively nice ride would be a huge plus. Right now our long trip car is my Integra Type R, so I guess this won't be that hard comparatively.

I just saw this have been looking for a reason to post it:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/packard/unspecified/1276704.html

Personally, I'm a BIG fan of conversion vans. They were basically made for doing long drives. When I had mine, I could do 8 hr trips and arrive at my destination not even tired. It's like driving your living room around.

Plus - imagine having a nice air conditioned room to hide out in during your off-heat at Warminster in the middle of July... or during one of those freak monsoon storms we seem to get.

Any US van would tow your car on an open trailer with ease. I had mine set up for racing mtn bikes and had removed the center seats and would install the rear bench when needed for camping (it was my bed - I've hated tent camping ever since). The result was a big box on wheels with 10' from the front seats to the rear doors. 12' from the dog house.

For the little amount you'll be towing, maybe look at the mid-size pick ups or SUVs. Pathfinder, Pilot, Dakota, Durango, etc... They should all tow your trailer for occassional duty just fine, but be fairly livable day to day. The Philly area isn't that hilly, so no major concerns there.

If you want to go full size, F150 is always a good choice. Maybe a Tundra if you can find one in your price range.

EDIT: I agree with Ian in that I'm a HUGE fan of conversion vans...hope to convince the wife to let us buy one when we're ready to replace the minivan. But now sure how convenient they are as DDs...

lol...hmmmm not sure if that packard meets my criteria, but it's fun to look at

Yeah I have thought pretty seriously about conversion vans. It seems like finding one that's newer is tough though. And I'm also not sure how it would compare to a full size truck around town, although we do have the miata too if it's bad.

What should I look for in a conversion van?

I was thinking Xterra...

So a lot of people are suggesting things with 5k lb tow ratings. How is it towing something very close to 5k lbs on something with a 5k tow rating? I had heard that it's pretty miserable and hard on the vehicle, so I kind of ruled that out. Was I wrong to do that?

IntegraR0064 wrote: How's the ride quality and noise on the F250/350, compared to a lighter duty truck like the 150? I would think it would be harsher and louder, am I wrong about that?

Yes.

ReverendDexter wrote:

IntegraR0064 wrote: How's the ride quality and noise on the F250/350, compared to a lighter duty truck like the 150? I would think it would be harsher and louder, am I wrong about that?

Yes.

Yes I'm wrong, or yes it's harsher?

IntegraR0064 wrote: So a lot of people are suggesting things with 5k lb tow ratings. How is it towing something very close to 5k lbs on something with a 5k tow rating? I had heard that it's pretty miserable and hard on the vehicle, so I kind of ruled that out. Was I wrong to do that?

Depends on the tows you're making.

If you're towing in mountainous terrain, then you're absolutely right. You want overkill on torque and brakes.

If you're towing on flat ground with minimal stops, I wouldn't be as worried about it.

IntegraR0064 wrote: Yes I'm wrong, or yes it's harsher?

Yes you're wrong for anything less than about 12 years old. New 3/4 & 1 ton trucks have much less NVH than even 15-20 year old 1/2 ton trucks.

Klayfish wrote: EDIT: I agree with Ian in that I'm a HUGE fan of conversion vans...hope to convince the wife to let us buy one when we're ready to replace the minivan. But now sure how convenient they are as DDs...

I used mine as a DD for a few months while my TDI was on order. The main killer was gas - at best, I could see upper teens. Filling up both tanks (I had a 90 Ford with dual tanks - ~30 gal) wasn't too painful until after Katrina... then it became a $100 bill. Ouch. Granted, filling my Cummins tank (30+ gal) right now isn't any better. But both were/are secondary vehicles for the most part and it doesn't bother me too much (my truck will sit for weeks on end between uses).

Buying the truck made me really miss the functionality of a van. The ONLY thing the truck does that a van can't is haul bulk mulch. For every other hauling duty, the van was better, would often hold more, and keep it dry.

I like Fords, but in reality, they're all about the same (some will disagree here...). Buy the newest, cleanest, lowest mileage one you can afford. An Autotrader and/or Ebay search will likely turn up a surprising number not far away. They don't sell a lot every year, but they've been sold for decades, so they're common. The drop in value like a stone as soon as they're off the lot.

Trailblazer SS would be my choice in those parameters.

The tows would be philly-nebraska or kansas, philly-toledo, philly-upstate new york, some obviously easy ones like philly-NJ or delaware. When you say "mountainous terrain", obviously things like the rocky mountains would count, but what about like the hills in central PA or west virginia

ReverendDexter wrote:

IntegraR0064 wrote: Yes I'm wrong, or yes it's harsher?

Yes you're wrong for anything less than about 12 years old. New 3/4 & 1 ton trucks have much less NVH than even 15-20 year old 1/2 ton trucks.

I suppose that may be true... my '95 Cummins 4x4 rides like a rock... despite having an 8' bed and the club cab resulting in extra-long wheelbase...

So Ian, you're saying just buy a passenger van and convert it myself? What's involved in the conversion? Or are we just talking a stock passenger van with some of the middle seats taken out?

ReverendDexter wrote:

IntegraR0064 wrote: Yes I'm wrong, or yes it's harsher?

Yes you're wrong for anything less than about 12 years old. New 3/4 & 1 ton trucks have much less NVH than even 15-20 year old 1/2 ton trucks.

So you're saying within the last 12 years, comparing hte same year F150 with it's counterpart F350 you think they'll ride the same?

One more thing I was thinking about vans - aren't they way harder to work on than trucks, since the engine is tucked in there, or no?

BTW, thanks everyone for all the help, this is extremely helpful.

IntegraR0064 wrote: So Ian, you're saying just buy a passenger van and convert it myself? What's involved in the conversion? Or are we just talking a stock passenger van with some of the middle seats taken out?

No - other way around. Buy a conversion van and de-seat it for cargo use. One thing I loved about my conversion van was the incredible 'stealth' aspect. You don't really notice how many of them are around until you start looking for them - they're everywhere, but you don't notice them. In my case, this was important when racing mtn bikes that cost more than the van did.

Oh yeah - raised roof is a must, and the main reason for a conversion van over a regular passenger van. It makes a big difference if you're using the van as a changing room (which I did a lot).

A side comment as a fellow PA resident. My conversion van was titled as a "station wagon" meaning $36/yr registration, vs. $153/yr for my 8800 lb GVWR Cummins.

Working on it: yes... somewhat... with the Ford, the engine was about half under the dog house, half under the hood. Getting to some things was a PITA... other things we're too bad. But after years of working on cramped FWD cars, it's just different. My Cummins is no pleasure to work on either. In some ways, it is worse - less room between the engine and the radiator, for example.

ReverendDexter wrote:

IntegraR0064 wrote: So a lot of people are suggesting things with 5k lb tow ratings. How is it towing something very close to 5k lbs on something with a 5k tow rating? I had heard that it's pretty miserable and hard on the vehicle, so I kind of ruled that out. Was I wrong to do that?

Depends on the tows you're making. If you're towing in mountainous terrain, then you're absolutely right. You want overkill on torque and brakes. If you're towing on flat ground with minimal stops, I wouldn't be as worried about it.

This. I used to tow with a Dodge Caravan and a tow dolly with a 2100 lb. car. One time a tow dolly wasn't available, and had to get a trailer from U-Haul (huge mistake in and of itself, also). So nearly 2000 lb. trailer and 2100 lb. car, a fairly anemic V6, brakes that aren't the greatest, and in the middle, a 90,000-miles-old Chrysler slushbox. I was terrified.

Seriously, it didn't do too badly, but I would not want to do it again. I can deal with being a bit down on power, but the brakes were really iffy (let's put it this way, it would be way less messy to hit a large animal in the road rather than try to swerve and/or brake for it), and the shorter wheelbase of a minivan versus a pickup truck made things sort of hairy, especially in crosswinds.

That said, if it's only a couple times a year, look at a V8 Dakota, or like a base-model but still V8 1500-series Chevy or F150.

WK 05-10 Grand Cherokee 5000-7200lb tow rating lots of space tows well cheap and reliable

I'd vote for a 99-02 Ford F/E/250/350 7.3 turbo diesel. Mine would be a F250 extended cab, 4x4 and 6' box. Get a tuner and get 22 mpgs or so (maybe more...), and you can tune it for when you want to tow, too.

Towing near capacity on smaller SUVs and trucks get old real fast. That and you can get yourself into dangerous situations a lot faster too.

A conversion van is a good way to go. Since most are built on 1/2 ton van platforms, make sure the trailer has good brakes.

Another option is a Cargo van, you can pickup Ford E250/350 cargo/work vans very cheaply and customize the inside to your liking. Plus they were available with Powerstrokes so you can get the better power and mileage of the diesel. Most were painted white so they are almost stealth vehicles.