irish44j wrote: one thing I am scared of is GM seeing the Panamera and saying "hey, let's do that with the vette, it would be awesome!" And it would not be awesome. It would be even stupider than the Panamera.
Unpossible. Porsche having dominated every class was jealous of Pontiac for holding the record for the world's dumbest car with their Aztec. With the Panamera, Porsche has now dominated all possible motorsports categories.
In reply to irish44j:
Well hang on here. Everyone is fixating on just one of the sentiments that Alan had on the vetted, and ignoring the ones that matter more.
For people who don't care about a E36 M3ty interior, we sure like to fight about it, huh? 
When my Shark bodied (I hate the revisionist "C3" moniker. Solid axles, followed by mid-years, followed by sharks, followed by "the new Corvette," followed by C5 and C6.) 75 grows up it wants to be a Grand Sport. I like the looks of the C6. I like the performance. I wish I could afford to get one. I drove a C6 when new and liked it tons. I would like the GS even more, but would really be satisfied with a base C6.
Really, what's wrong with this??
In reply to plance1:
Crybabies crying about crybabies is hilarious as well, ya know?
The supporters make a good point, the car is cheaper than what it competes with and you should be able to overlook a shoddy interior or body panels you can flex with a finger. But guess what? The detractors have the right of it too. GM shouldn't cut corners on a 70 thousand dollar car and a goddamn icon to boot. Suspect interior quality on a mid range econobox is one thing, it's something else entirely on the flagship image for the whole company.
You know what would make the car better? If GM took that zillion hp and spectacular performance and actually paired it up with a decent interior. It's not like it's that damn hard, or that it matters if the car winds up being 75 or, god forbid, 80 grand when it's all said and done. Nobody normal buys a Vette because it's slightly faster than some euro trash slutmobile, they buy it because it's a berkeleying corvette and they want it.
This year I got to drive a Grand Sport and a 911 for the first time. I have to say hands down I would get a 911 over the corvette if I had the money, even if the 911 was several years older.
The Corvette had power and that was definitely fun, but the steering feel and execution of the power just wasn't there. Although I would have to agree the Corvette is absolutely the only car that GM currently makes that seems to be any good. After experiencing the direct mechanical driving bliss of the 911 I couldn't rationally justify getting a Corvette when I knew what else was out there.
Grizz wrote: "... some euro trash slutmobile,..."
Mental images!
Suddenly I want to cash in my daughter's college fund and go buy a Furrari: 
sluts are fun. Tend to be young and full of unexpended energy.
You Sir, should be in marketing. You have a firm grasp of the reality of perception.
The steering assistance on the Corvette is adjustable. Plug the car in to a GM Tech2 and you can set it to a few choices (the manual lists 3; more recent tools may have more values).
If you don't like the Corvette's interior, sit in one with Sparcos. They really change everything, and since you're lower you'll see the dash less.
For comparison...
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: For comparison...
Or, with optional "Cup" trim package - which still looks like it uses better quality materials than the Z-06 
:
Your GT3 picture wasn't working, use this one.
Grizz wrote: In reply to plance1: Crybabies crying about crybabies is hilarious as well, ya know? The supporters make a good point, the car is cheaper than what it competes with and you should be able to overlook a shoddy interior or body panels you can flex with a finger. But guess what? The detractors have the right of it too. GM shouldn't cut corners on a 70 thousand dollar car and a goddamn icon to boot. Suspect interior quality on a mid range econobox is one thing, it's something else entirely on the flagship image for the whole company. You know what would make the car better? If GM took that zillion hp and spectacular performance and actually paired it up with a decent interior. It's not like it's that damn hard, or that it matters if the car winds up being 75 or, god forbid, 80 grand when it's all said and done. Nobody normal buys a Vette because it's slightly faster than some euro trash slutmobile, they buy it because it's a berkeleying corvette and they want it.
whah whah whah, you must be the chief crybaby, or the lead crybaby spokesman, like I said, it amuses me to come to a website devoted to supposedly grassroots and see reviews posted for cars that cost 70 grand, then to see poor crybabies (Im just poor observor and commentator, but not a crybaby) spew a bunch of nonsense, especially since....if you're reading a "grassroots" website then most likely whatever you're driving has even a crappier interior.
Has this magazine finally gone upscale on us and taken you whiners with them?
Nope, I'm not the crybaby in chief. My current vehicle has a top of the line interior, for a truck from 1993.
I don't genuinely give a E36 M3 one way or another, as I have no interest in owning a vette of any stripe. I've just been drinking and thought someone essentially freaking out over a tired argument that has existed for quite some time to be funny and merited a bored response.
As far as the grassroots stuff, what does that have to do with the argument at hand? There are plenty of people on here who drive cheap beaters, there are plenty of people here who don't, but that's really irrelevant in an argument over whether a crap interior detracts from the rest of a good car.
plance1, perhaps you are the only grassrootsman with the purity of spirit to see thru the charade. Now, I've just come in from overseeing the boy detail the Aston and will be having my bath prepared, then to the library for a hot toddy at which time you are welcome to join me to discuss these cads and what is to be done about them.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: For comparison...
The Corvette interior doesn't bother me. If I spent 98% of my time in the car, then yes, over time it would start to bother me. But for something I would use on nice days and weekends, no it doesn't bother me.
In the Porsche interior, I hate suede. Better get out the Suede Brush to clean the interior.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: In the Porsche interior, I hate suede. Better get out the Suede Brush to clean the interior.
You def want suede over slippery leather when hustling thru the twisties or planting your short-pants wearin' creamy white thighs in there on a 100F day. Just don't wear your angora sweaters to a track day and you should be fine.
Grizz wrote: Nope, I'm not the crybaby in chief. My current vehicle has a top of the line interior, for a truck from 1993. I don't genuinely give a E36 M3 one way or another, as I have no interest in owning a vette of any stripe. I've just been drinking and thought someone essentially freaking out over a tired argument that has existed for quite some time to be funny and merited a bored response. As far as the grassroots stuff, what does that have to do with the argument at hand? There are plenty of people on here who drive cheap beaters, there are plenty of people here who don't, but that's really irrelevant in an argument over whether a crap interior detracts from the rest of a good car.
Well now silly sally you may play it off and say you don't care but seriously cool guy, you cared enough to take offense to the honest truth and try to mount some kind of response, even while drinking! Now that's caring!
As I indicated and as I was greenlighted by the original poster who wanted to "stoke" an argument, I just have to shake my head at these silly new car reviews that Tim and the gang are putting out there for our consumption. Usually any criticism leads to a nasty Margie beat down even if I didn't start with the name calling but I don't care. Ya know how the answer is always miata? Know how car manufacturers are always going bigger, longer and heavier? Well, car magazines always go upscale the longer they are in business. Really now, how many of you grassroots guys who are driving a 93 trucks with "top of the line interiors" can afford, in addition to the subject vette:
2011 Infiniti QX56 2012 Buick Enclave 2011 Lexus ES350 2011 Nissan Nismo 370Z 2011 Lexus GS350 (gee another lexus) 2011 Infiniti G25 Sedan Journey 2011 BMW 535i X Drive whatever 2012 Chevy Camaro SS Coupe 2011 Saab Turbo 05 2011 Porsche Boxter Sypder Oh, here we go, another Lexus: this time its the 2011 IS250 2011 Jaguar XKR Coupe
etc, etc, etc or for that matter, any of the more plebian cars on the list? Well, I guess if you are expanding your readership into Motortrend and Autoweek territory maybe this number is larger then expected, but for those of driving 93 trucks (thanks for proving my point by the way) or even older volvos, that stuff is just a bunch of garbage to be ignored. Bottomline is, you guys are all become as soft as the plastic you long for. Truth hurts, rant off, flame on!
plance1 wrote: I just have to shake my head at these silly new car reviews that Tim and the gang are putting out there for our consumption. Usually any criticism leads to a nasty Margie beat down even if I didn't start with the name calling but I don't care. Well, I guess if you are expanding your readership into Motortrend and Autoweek territory maybe this number is larger then expected, but for those of driving 93 trucks or even older volvos, that stuff is just a bunch of garbage to be ignored. Bottomline is, you guys are all become as soft as the plastic you long for. Truth hurts, rant off, flame on!
Saywhat? For the record, GRM is a small mag - the only press cars they get are what carmakers push after all the big boys have picked the rest to review. It's not like they're going out to Infinity and begging to drive the new QX56. And the usual condition on receiving a press car is to publish about it somewhere - like this site. Yeesh.
plance1 wrote: Well now silly sally you may play it off and say you don't care but seriously cool guy, you cared enough to take offense to the honest truth and try to mount some kind of response, even while drinking! Now that's caring!
Not troof, I've been banned from most everywhere else or forgotten my password information. besides, it's 11 o clock and I'm drunk, arguing on the internet is one of the better choices I have right now.
plance1 wrote: As I indicated and as I was greenlighted by the original poster who wanted to "stoke" an argument,
What do you think I was doing?
plance1 wrote: I just have to shake my head at these silly new car reviews that Tim and the gang are putting out there for our consumption.
As long as they stick with the other stuff I really don't mind passing over reveiws of cars I don't car about.
plance1 wrote: Ya know how the answer is always miata? Know how car manufacturers are always going bigger, longer and heavier? Well, car magazines always go upscale the longer they are in business.
Seem to recall complaining about Sport Compact Car going that way what with the 50000 dollar lexus not even compact car reveiws, so yeah, I get what you're saying.
plance1 wrote: Really now, how many of you grassroots guys who are driving a 93 trucks with "top of the line interiors" can afford, in addition to the subject vette: 2011 Infiniti QX56 2012 Buick Enclave 2011 Lexus ES350 2011 Nissan Nismo 370Z 2011 Lexus GS350 (gee another lexus) 2011 Infiniti G25 Sedan Journey 2011 BMW 535i X Drive whatever 2012 Chevy Camaro SS Coupe 2011 Saab Turbo 05 2011 Porsche Boxter Sypder Oh, here we go, another Lexus: this time its the 2011 IS250 2011 Jaguar XKR Coupe etc, etc, etc or for that matter, any of the more plebian cars on the list?
Don't knock the faux wood grain and sweet burgundy vinyl bench thank you very much. For the rest of it, off the top of my head, one. But a hell of a lot of those read like daily drivers so you aren't stuck driving the 500 dollar truck you bought to haul garbage and moar project cars. It's not like the readership is a bunch of brokeasses like me and you ya know?
plance1 wrote: Well, I guess if you are expanding your readership into Motortrend and Autoweek territory maybe this number is larger then expected, but for those of driving 93 trucks (thanks for proving my point by the way) or even older volvos, that stuff is just a bunch of garbage to be ignored. Bottomline is, you guys are all become as soft as the plastic you long for. Truth hurts, rant off, flame on!
A: Not a problem. B: Entirely true, a lot of it will get ignored by plenty of readers, and it'll either hurt them and drop readership, or it wont. Just like there is a chance that them catering solely to the whims and desires of someone like me would backfire*.
*I'm almost certain that an issue devoted to big huge overpowered luxo highway bombers would simultaneously be one of the most hated and popular issues.
New guy is wrong. That Alcantara interior is hot, and there is nothing wrong with satin black plastic. Looks nice. And you get your damn hands away from it with your fake carbon overlay. Heresy I tell you.
Just entering this thread on page three, but...
I have seen GM for its good points and bad points (not that a 'vette is really of GM production anymore) but can say this. When I worked at GM, the 'vette guys and gals were really stretching the boundaries of vehicle tech and some of that trickled down to us in the lowly light truck division.
Regardless of whether or not you like suede seats, the 'vette program has done a LOT for GM, not necessarily with just the corvette itself. These days the 'vette and caddy folks are in bed together. It sure has brought the caddy up to speed with a minimum of degradation to the Y-body.
In reply to Grizz:
peace and stay thirsty my friend
chaparral wrote: The steering assistance on the Corvette is adjustable. Plug the car in to a GM Tech2 and you can set it to a few choices (the manual lists 3; more recent tools may have more values).
That sounds groundbreaking!
Ohh.... wait. My 1990 model econo-Mazda has that.
Wow. Tom, you got the argument you wanted.
WARNING HERESY ALERT
Porsche does not impress me, like Mercedes and all the other luxobarge builders they just throw money at something and then wrap it in some soft plastic or hamburger wrapper to make it 'feel' good. Anyone can spend a wad on fancy materials to make a car 'feel' great. Not a problem. It takes real know how to build a Porsche beater on a budget and GM has done just that.
END HERESY ALERT
Even in its current form I'd take a 'Vette over a Porsche because of the price differential and the powertrain layout. I don't mind the flexy body panels, that's part of the Corvette heritage.
But as I keep sayin', shrink the thing in weight and size 20% (okay, 15% would be OK too), make the interior liveable (and by that I mean make the seats fit real humans and fix the crappy rear visibility of the coupes, don't get all wound up over plastic) and keep the price near where it is, then GM would really knock the socks off of Porsche.
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
It doesn't need to be groundbreaking, it's just there and works. The steering feel is one of the most criticized points on the car. The factory setting is appropriate for those of us who think one-finger effort is desirable in a 175-MPH car. You can improve it with a press of a button on a scan tool.
chaparral wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: It doesn't need to be groundbreaking, it's just there and works. The steering feel is one of the most criticized points on the car. The factory setting is appropriate for those of us who think one-finger effort is desirable in a 175-MPH car. You can improve it with a press of a button on a scan tool.
I was just being facetious.
I'd prefer NO power steering, but that's just me. (I removed that bullE36 M3 from my car.)
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