Woody wrote:petegossett wrote:Elaborate upon this idea...Woody wrote: I think I'm giving up on the idea of the Element, Time to get the BMW sold and start looking for a 2009+ Fit Sport.Wanna trade?
I think Pete's is a slushbox, if that makes a difference to you 
Not all Elements are the same. The SC is a drastically different car. It got 18" wheels and lowered suspension compared to the EX and LX varieties. The interior is fully upholstered and carpeted without any of the rubber stuff of the base models. I'm 140k daily driven miles into my Ailment. It's a 5 speed manual trans. Unscheduled work has been a battery replacement. Otherwise I'm militant on all maintenance including valve adjustment, belt replacement, and trans oil replacement. Lifetime fuel economy is 25mpg.
During the winter I put a set of 16" civic steelies on it. With the factory tow package, I use it as much as possible to avoid having to drive my truck.
You'd have to hold a gun to my head to get me to track this car though. It's basically a truck. Aftermarket parts are all but non existent. I'll be refreshing the suspesnion this year and I have to go back to mother Honda just to buy new struts. The aftermarket does not make them. Rockauto, etc....no dice.
In reply to Cousin_Eddie:
More very helpful info there. Thanks.
pointofdeparture wrote:Woody wrote:I think Pete's is a slushbox, if that makes a difference to youpetegossett wrote:Elaborate upon this idea...Woody wrote: I think I'm giving up on the idea of the Element, Time to get the BMW sold and start looking for a 2009+ Fit Sport.Wanna trade?
Ooohh...sorry Pete
In reply to Woody:
Well a trans swap couldn't be that difficult, right? 
Seriously, SWMBO probably wouldn't be very happy about it anyway, since she has no desire to drive a stick. 
RSX? Hatchback, can still fit a dog fine, and more trackable.
turtl631 wrote: RSX? Hatchback, can still fit a dog fine, and more trackable.
But if you're going to do that and deal with all of the wonky suspension geometry of that generation Honda then the breadbox Civic Si would probably make a better dog car. In fact, the breadbox Civic Si is probably a reasonable option too.
In reply to mazdeuce:
You might be on to something here. Woody gets a K series and he gets a dog friendly hatchback that will be more fun on track than a fit and have more suspension options I think.
Huh, I had forgotten they ever made these. It does pretty much look like a 2-door Fit.
In reply to clutchsmoke:
EP3, brilliant!
Although at my last autoX, I did beat an EP3 with my 8th gen Civic LX-S on cheap Chinese "sport" tires. As far as driver skill, no clue about that guy, but mine is quite lacking.
In reply to mazdeuce:
I had forgotten how much I loved those cars. I think it might to find an unmodified one under 100k miles.
There's so few of those things around that I don't even know if they like to rust. Honda plus England sounds like a rusty combo.
Hi Woody,
I've had both. The Element was a SC 5-speed and it was great with two Old English Sheep Dogs. You just can't beat that wash it out interior! Plus with the double width side opening and height, there's damn little I ever had problems loading into it. Drove it for years & did nothing but change the oil, tires, and brake pads. No tuneups, nothing. It always got in the high 20's mpg. My buddy bought it from me and he's a house painter. Loves it for the utility side & the fact the back seats easily fold down when he needs the passenger space in back.
We moved to a patio home and now have much smaller dogs. My wife thought the 27-29mpg of the Element was atrocious so we sold the Element and bought a Fit Sport 5-speed. Wife is much happier with the 35+, and on the road 38-39 mpg we actually see. It's about as handy as the two Civic wagons we had in the '80s and a ball to drive, considering its' utility.
One huge disadvantage to our Fit is the material on the seats. Our dogs are white, the seats are black & they hold dog hair tighter than any upholstery I've ever tried to clean in my life. Either Car and Driver or Road & Track tested a Fit and said the same thing.
BTW: Make sure if you buy a Fit you get the Fit Sport! That silly looking little spoiler over the hatch really works. Your hatch window will always be dirty because the spoiler breaks up the station wagon effect. But you'll really gain gas mileage with it. A woman we know has the same model Fit as we and has never gotten over 35mpg anytime.
Slushboxes? I haven't had a slushbox since I sold my '66 Jaguar MK X.
To answer your question, the Fit all day.
To do the GRM thing and suggest something else, how about a Mazda 2?
I like the EP3 Civic Si.
Tough choice Woody!
I had a 09 Fit Sport for a while and loved it. Still long to have another 2nd gen for a DD/Track car.
Element is great for dogs. It's basically an accord and if you can find parts for an accord you can find parts for the element. K-series also has an endless aftermarket.
EP3 Civic Si is the red headed rat bastard of Civics here in the states. The 160hp variant of the K20 is less than exciting and the front suspension is much hated (even though it's not that bad). Still there are a ton of them out there on the cheap.
I've autocrossed an Element SC before, twas a blast, bit of a dog, but still a blast.
http://www.superstreetonline.com/features/0705-ht-2004-honda-element-d/
I had a 2013 Fit Sport for a couple of years - great car, and fun to drive. I will second that the upholstery is a little on the cheap side, and holds dog hair like a magnet though. My heel wore a hole through the carpet by the clutch at 15k miles.
Great daily though, and surprisingly fun to fling around. I averaged 32mpg, and was up in the 35 range on the highway.
damn it Woody, I'm looking at Fits now. [shakes fist]
DirtyBird222 wrote: damn it Woody, I'm looking at Fits now. [shakes fist]
Stay out of my search radius!
Woody, I have an '09 Fit Base model, 75K miles, bought new. I love it. I bought Wet Okole front seat covers within the first week. When I was looking, I checked the difference between Base and S models, and the spoiler and rear sway bar were the only differences I cared about in the slightest. I get 41 mpg on the interstate doing 70-80 according to the factory mpg thingie, 36 or so at worst (in town). A buddy bought a '10 S with paddle shift auto, and he gets nearly 10 mpg less. I cannot speak to a 5-speed S compared to mine, but would love to do a side by side comparison. My point is this-don't write off the base. There is very little difference, and I for one, prefer the less gimmicky styling.
My car was purchased as a workhorse, and yes the rear carpet holds dog hair. My plan was always to replace the whole rear area with rubber, or truck bed lined aluminum sheets. The magic seat makes it very nice for medium sized and above buddies to jump in just like any other passenger. I bought a Thule roof rack that has hauled home drywall, hardie-board, full sheets of plywood, a 4' fan, etc, ad infinty. I brought a 14' I-beam home, stuffed in the passenger's floorboard, and hanging pretty far out the back. Really, I could go on and on. It is still fun to drive, and handles well. I'd love to get a rear bar, and maybe a spoiler, but the darn thing is an appliance, and more fun than anything wearing that description has any right to be.
But there's always a catch. Locks. Mine have been replaced twice. Once under warranty, once on my $600 dime. It is my belief that the remote locks are more thoroughly engineered than the non-remote-yet still power locks that came on my zero option, early production run after a restyle car. Locksmiths will not touch them, and I talked the dealer down from $850 to install the new locks because I bought the car at that dealership, and had the exact same problem warrantied once before. Now that I think of it, maybe the S is a good choice. Happy hunting, oil those locks with 3-in-1 often!
In reply to Woody:
GOOD LUCK FINDING A DEAL ON A FIT! They are hugely popular on the used market, here in Kentucky at least.
As to rust, I've had several Hondas starting with '78 Accord. (They only came in 2-dr hatchbacks then.) Most of those Hondas never spent a night in the garage & they salt and brine around here about four or five times as often as it snows! I've not had rust problems with one yet. (KNOCK WOOD!)
I have heard about the door lock issues on the standard Fit too. But I'm not aware of any problems with the locks on the Sport model. That and getting better gas mileage alone make the Sport be the only model I'd consider. And in case you haven't seen one, they have a killer red! That red reminds you of a Ferrari.
I recently drove both a Nismo Juke RS and the ND MX-5 Miata (Club Sport) at the local autoshow... would flat out take the Nismo Juke RS over the miata. Funky, flat cornering with tight, tossable steering all in a mini crossover with nice Alcantara interior and same model Recaro seat (Sportscar CS) I have in my FR-S...
Too bad they are kind of expensive and a small liter turbo engine...I really want one now.
Vracer111 wrote: I recently drove both a Nismo Juke RS and the ND MX-5 Miata (Club Sport) at the local autoshow... would flat out take the Nismo Juke RS over the miata. Funky, flat cornering with tight, tossable steering all in a mini crossover with nice Alcantara interior and same model Recaro seat (Sportscar CS) I have in my FR-S... Too bad they are kind of expensive and a small liter turbo engine...I really want one now.
Last I checked, all Jukes are excluded from SCCA autocross street categories for reasons of stability. That was a punch in gut to my fondness for them.
We have an 08 Fit Sport (automatic) and 02 EP3 Civic. Both make good doggie cars. Neither stirs my soul and I don't think a standard transmission would help the Fit's cause that much. Neither is particularly quick and you really feel the weight of the EP3 if you try to hustle it. Given the choice of the two, I'd take the Fit just because of its ridiculous versatility, and keep something fun for weekend duty.
Mike wrote:Vracer111 wrote: I recently drove both a Nismo Juke RS and the ND MX-5 Miata (Club Sport) at the local autoshow... would flat out take the Nismo Juke RS over the miata. Funky, flat cornering with tight, tossable steering all in a mini crossover with nice Alcantara interior and same model Recaro seat (Sportscar CS) I have in my FR-S... Too bad they are kind of expensive and a small liter turbo engine...I really want one now.Last I checked, all Jukes are excluded from SCCA autocross street categories for reasons of stability. That was a punch in gut to my fondness for them.
also Fiesta's(non ST)
MrChaos wrote:Mike wrote:also Fiesta's(non ST)Vracer111 wrote: I recently drove both a Nismo Juke RS and the ND MX-5 Miata (Club Sport) at the local autoshow... would flat out take the Nismo Juke RS over the miata. Funky, flat cornering with tight, tossable steering all in a mini crossover with nice Alcantara interior and same model Recaro seat (Sportscar CS) I have in my FR-S... Too bad they are kind of expensive and a small liter turbo engine...I really want one now.Last I checked, all Jukes are excluded from SCCA autocross street categories for reasons of stability. That was a punch in gut to my fondness for them.
Yep, and Fiat 500, except Abarth. I'm just disappointed that there is no carve out for even the NISMO models. I wonder how much more likely they are to tip than the Porsche Macan.
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