Hot Hatch in CA? (205 GTI content)

Been craving a hot hatch for some time, and for a while I've had my sights set on a Peugeot 205 GTI, the semi-consensus Best of the Hot Hatches.

Then, a couple things happened.

First, I became much more educated on the difficulties of bringing European cars into California, and all the ways my insurer could screw me if, say, I got that car some Oregon plates instead of CA ones and then got into a wreck.

Second, the prices of 205 GTIs have started to blow up in a big way. Clean ones in Europe are well above $10k, and a nice-looking one in the US just cleared $22k on BringATrailer. I know these cars are legendary, but I also know that they were pretty cheaply made.

So, my question is -- is it possible to get anywhere close to the 205 GTI experience in a way that's both legal and semi-affordable? Or is the 205 GTI really worth the cash and hassle?

Just want to add that while I know a MKI or MKII Golf is pretty much the default answer to "hot hatch", I've also spent a lot of pretty miserable hours working on my friends' VW cars and am not sure I want that kind of special hell in my life.

Someone basically gave away a 309 GTI on BaT a few months ago because nobody wanted it. Basically a 205 GTI with a trunk.

The 405 Mi16 is another option, actually has an engine that's desirable for 205 swaps but was originally sold here (so possible to meet CA emissions regs) and is significantly cheaper.

Excellent, hadn't considered either of those...I'm all about the popular car's under appreciated siblings.

Saw one at GRC D.C. a couple of years ago. A top ten car of the 80s for most U.K. car mags. Sat in the back of a diesel one. Tin can is an understatement. The 1.6 was actually the pundits choice as the 1.9 was felt to be too much. Same block just a longer stroke from what I remember. True classic. Game changer. Iconic. Unknown here mostly. Look at all the other hot hatches if budget is an issue. Nissan had a few other than the GTI-r. 

You can put the 16v in the 309. 'Sleeper' sleeper.

In reply to pointofdeparture :

I would have taken it very readily.

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Now I understand the photo berkeley it hate. 

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That'll have to do.  Or not. 

I ran a 405 Mi16 as a daily driver for about 2 years and I'm plugged into the (relatively tiny) enthusiast community surrounding them. I can honestly say it's by far the best FWD I've ever driven...and I include cars like the Integra Type R in that group. The ergonomics are unbeatable: shifter, steering, seats, visibility, etc. were all perfect. You can find a really good example for under $4k easily. 

If you really want a hatchback, try to find a Renault 5 GT Turbo or Citroen Saxo VTR. The Citroen is basically exactly the same as the 205 GTI, but much cheaper because it doesn't have the halo. The Renault may even be a better car overall. It's smaller, lighter, and handles just as well (maybe even better). They go for 3500-5000 euros these days, but prices have stared to rise.

Awesome! Yeah, I don't necessarily have to have a hatchback, I was just more looking for that feel -- a fun, lightweight FWD car that captures what the hot hatch thing was all about. If anything, the 309 and 405 Mi16 look a little more practical than the 205, which is absolutely tiny.

Is there a huge difference between the 309 GTI and the 405 Mi16?

The 309 looks great, and could actually probably be legalized in CA with an engine swap from an Mi16. But the 405 already has the engine and would be probably easier to find and involve a lot less red tape.

I've sat in the front seat of a Saxo.  That footwell is tiny.  I have 9.5 US wide.  It was diesel with a E36 M3 on motor so I didn't drive it but okay I was probably wearing Doctor Martins but maybe so still no room in the footwell.  Sorry for the stream of consciousness that's how I write.  My 89 Nissan Sunny however had much more spacious room all over even in the back and the Saxo felt like a chopped in half car regarding the footwell space.  Conspicuous difference from the Nissan to the Citroen.  

In reply to monkeyodeath :

I wouldn’t bother with the 309 since you can already find the 405 Mi16 here in America. Earlier ones are better: at some point they switched from an all-alloy 1.9L to a 2.0L with iron block. Also, at some point they added those horrible semi-automatic front seatbelts. My ‘91 had those and they sucked big time!

Like pretty much all cars of this era, Euro models looked much better: they had nicer headlights, low-profile bumpers, and better integrated side molding. The whole thing was sleeker. They also had the classic Peugeot grey ribbed tail panel (US-spec models were shiny, red, reflective plastic for some reason) and red Mi16 logo (ours was silver).

The previous owner of my Mi16 had added all that Euro stuff to the car. I was foolish to let it go, but I was paying NYC prices to park it and had other projects that took priority. It needed a new engine, but they’re hard to find as all the 205 GTI guys want them for swaps. 

I am biased, but if I wanted a hot hatch, it would be a fiat 125 or 130 TC. Basically an Abarthed Fiat Strada with either a 125hp or 130hp twincam

Deleted my normal "I want to import a car to CA" long winded response after rereading your post since you have that information already.

Omni GLHS or an older GTI? One isn't European but is supposed to be a ball of fun the other is European and well supported so actually keeping it running is a less expensive option.

One thing to keep in mind - hot hatches are, pretty much by definition, built out of economy cars. Cheaply made and tight packaging comes with the territory.

In reply to The0retical :

Yup, spent quite a bit of time looking into the various ins and outs of getting foreign cars into California...definitely whittles down the options.

I was actually just thinking of the GLHS -- might be fun to get something oddball and interesting. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Tight packaging is fine with me (spent a lot of time wrenching on an AW11 and a 3.2 911), but I will admit that the "cheaply made" part was on my mind when I watched the last 205 GTI on BaT go for $22k.

I think I'd rather try to get into the same ballpark with something fairly cheap and domestically available...I feel weird about dropping big money on a car that was intended to be borderline disposable.

In reply to LanEvo :

The more I read about these, the more I'm interested, though might take me a while to track one down. Would be cool to get some of those GTI dynamics but still have A/C and a useable trunk.

CRX or Civic Si, especially the first gen CRX/3rd gen Civic. Light, nimble, fun. There's a nice CRX Si for sale right now for $4k, I saw it on the Redpepper facebook group.

You get a lot of positive reactions to a first gen CRX from gearheads.

There is something I adore about small/lighteight hot hatches. In fact to some extent I crave one as an HPDE toy especially after seeing the little mini's punch it out in the continental tire series. But almost all the budget HPDE car recommendations are never really FWD. 

Also one of my first racing instructors bought a supercharged caged CRX from Oscar Jackson. That car was FAAASST putting down about 180-190 to the wheels