How do people register home built hot rods?

OK, this may not be the ideal question for people from this board, but it’s where I live.

I don’t understand how people register scratch built hot rods. I understand that if you have a single bolt and a chassis plate from an old car people request a ‘lost’ title and say it’s an original car even there isn’t so much as that single bolt remaining. But what about totally scratch built Rods? I’m sure they could be registered in the same way as a Locost or Kitcar, but that doesn’t jive with my observations. I know for instance that in Michigan when you register a 7 for example you need a windscreen and wipers and that lights have to be too spec etc. But many rods I see obviously don’t meet any of those specs. Could it be that they are claiming a replica of a 27 T, or a 32 Ford? If so that makes no sense. Unless you’ve lived cars your whole life This:

Doesn’t in anyway resemble this.

Nor does this have anything in common

With this

So how do they do it?

In Georgia they are registered as kit cars usually. Process can be a bit of a pain though. At work they jumped through a bunch of hoops to register one of the new 69 Camaro bodies, but it can be done.

I believe the most common verbiage allows replicas to be registered as the car which they most closely resemble. If there is a commonly recognized form of modifications to a given cars appearance from stock that is still recognizable, as with hot rods, then I would guess that most inspectors in states with the laws written as such will pass it through.

In Wisconsin, we have Hobbyist plates that cover those. http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/vehicles/personal/special/hobbyist.htm

I got to this excellent link from the exocet site (thanks exocet peeps!). I think it is quite useful.

SEMA collection of registration stuff for all 50 states

I agree. It is confusing. I live in IL, and there are multiple different classifications with different rules each. 'specially constructed vehicles', 'custom vehicles', 'replicas', 'hot rods' (must be older than 1948 or something silly), etc.

Also, in IL, it is not clear to me whether a windshield is required. It is covered about 100 different ways what percentage tint you are allowed to apply to your windshield if you have an aftermarket subwoofer box, etc, but if you even have to have one or not is not clear.

I wouldn't assume all of the hotrods you see are really following all of the rules... I would not be surprised if a lot of rods in MI are registered under the vin of whatever car gave up it's chassis. In which case, a lot of greatly altered customs are a stock 80's Mustang or something like a Chevy S10 according to the paperwork.

The Atom that's running around locally is registered as some sort of 1960's VW kit car. Or, at least it was until a tree got in the way of an unorthodox corner exit. There's no legitimate way it could be registered like that, but all you need to do is get past one inspection. I don't know if the car will have a different identity when it gets rebuilt thanks to potential law enforcement scrutiny.

The hot rod community gets special rules that aren't applicable to newer cars like Exocets. In Colorado, for example, they get a special exemption to the windshield laws.

In many cases, however, I suspect it's simply a matter of a chassis plate donor.

WilD wrote: I wouldn't assume all of the hotrods you see are really following all of the rules... I would not be surprised if a lot of rods in MI are registered under the vin of whatever car gave up it's chassis. In which case, a lot of greatly altered customs are a stock 80's Mustang or something like a Chevy S10 according to the paperwork.

That's a good point, although, I wonder what happens when you get pulled over, or if you get pulled over frequently because you have standard plates on an obviously non-standard car?

I would imagine that insurance could be quite a problem if something were to happen as well. (Assuming you are already cool with fixing your own car, its when you hit someone else and suddenly your insurance doesn't cover you because you weren't doing the paperwork correclty and now you are on the hook to replace someone else's range rover.

I've also heard that a common option is to find a friend in a county or state other than yours to register it. I've heard Montana... but the local govt officials would not be knowledgeable about the hot rod licensing laws in a state across the country.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Did you have to register your Locost's the same way as they do the Atoms? I would assume that an Exocet would be just like the home made 7's.

Although, I don't count the Atom- technically, that's a full import, and swapping the VIN is very ilegal.

The simple answer is it varies greatly by state. Each DOT has their own rules regarding what you have to do to title and register a hot rod or home-built car. Most of this info can be found on your state's DOT website.

rcutclif wrote: I got to this excellent link from the exocet site (thanks exocet peeps!). I think it is quite useful. SEMA collection of registration stuff for all 50 states I agree. It is confusing. I live in IL, and there are multiple different classifications with different rules each. 'specially constructed vehicles', 'custom vehicles', 'replicas', 'hot rods' (must be older than 1948 or something silly), etc. Also, in IL, it is not clear to me whether a windshield is required. It is covered about 100 different ways what percentage tint you are allowed to apply to your windshield if you have an aftermarket subwoofer box, etc, but if you even have to have one or not is not clear.

That's a great link thanks

I bet people are correct. Most are running around with vins from 80's mustangs or something

I plan to register my scratch built midlana as a custom vehicle replica of a Lotus 7 using this procedure:
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/docs/handouts/street_rod_custom_vehicle_information.pdf

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: Did you have to register your Locost's the same way as they do the Atoms? I would assume that an Exocet would be just like the home made 7's. Although, I don't count the Atom- technically, that's a full import, and swapping the VIN is very ilegal.

Atoms are made in the US and have been for a while, actually. First by Brammo, now by TMI. But that specific car has been the cause of some special laws, both for and against, as they're not sold as kits or even "turnkey minus". They're only sold as complete cars. Oregon has a law that is explicitly worded to identify the Atom as a special kind of show and display, and I know that MA (amongst others) has outlawed them due to the sheer number of shenanigans involved in getting plates for them across the country. The Atom owner's forum has a section devoted to registration, and it's restricted to owners only due to the techniques discussed within. I suspect quite a few of them are masquerading as other vehicles.

Now, if we use any OTHER kit car...

Locosts usually register just like your typical Cobra kit and like the Exocet. Instead of an MSO for the frame, you basically have to show that you made the frame. Receipts for tubing, etc. Once you get past that, it's a standard registration. In the case of the Exocet, I suspect a very large number of them are pretending to be Miatas.

Where I live in BC, the provincial insurance corporation has a special category for home built vehicles called Ubilt, which is how I registered my Locost:

http://www.icbc.com/vehicle-registration/specialty-vehicles/Pages/Ubilt-vehicles-and-trailers.aspx

A provincial assigned VIN number plate is provided to the inspection facility, who will attach it to the frame once the car passes.

I plan to go the same route to register my Miata based scratch built street rod project. Shameless plug to build thread:

http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17167

You guys are over thinking this. I have a guy who can provide a clean title and the legal chassis, whole or full tags, for not a tremendous amount of money. What little of it makes it to the new chassis is what California at least uses.

Or you go SB100 like my cobra is which is complete fabrication, chassis has a MSO so its legal to register just got to jump through the hoops.

In Oregon we register them as "assembled" vehicles. Last time I was involved was with my pops 48 Anglia gasser. He had a shell with no title, but a receipt, receipts for the steel for the frame and the junkyard 454 and transmission. That was all they needed to issue a "1948 assembled" title

http://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/vehicle/assembled.aspx

Florida passed a law on this that makes it relatively easy:

http://www.semasan.com/page.asp?content=aa_2007FL1&g=SEMAGA

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Very interesting - I saw an Atom in a parking garage just the other day, and saw it driving around downtown Cambridge yesterday. Didn't catch if it had MA tags on it or not though.

NJ is a pain.. in order to register it as a kit.. it has to meet all current emissions and safety specs.. there is no registering a replica of a 69 Seven as a 69 Seven.

NJ basically made it impossible.

Heck, to register a homebuilt trailer, you have to document every single part that went into it

I was told my the new owners of the XXXocet about the Anti-Atom stance in MA. Apparently there was a country-wide alert from the NHTSA about the car. He was quite concerned that the Exocet would look too much like an Atom. He's been working closely with the DOT on registration of his Exocet.

Looks like some Atom owners are having problems in TX and GA. It's one thing to get it registered the first time, it would be a real shock to hear that you couldn't renew your registration.
http://www.arielatomchat.com/forums/thread2198.html

mad_machine wrote: NJ is a pain.. in order to register it as a kit.. it has to meet all current emissions and safety specs.. there is no registering a replica of a 69 Seven as a 69 Seven. NJ basically made it impossible. Heck, to register a homebuilt trailer, you have to document every single part that went into it

Not exactly. It has to meet emissions for year of the donor motor, kills with VW kits that used aftermarket motors because they aren't stamped with a serial number to indicate the date. "Some guy I knew" may or may not have borrowed the motor from a friends VW for the inspection since his didn't have a serial number.

We dont have safety inspection anymore so that's not an issue but even when we did it was lights, belts, brakes, I really don't mind that kind of stuff being checked.

But you are correct, not just for trailers but for kit/assembled cars as well you must have receipts for everything, titles for all donor cars and it must have an inspection upon completion by one of only 3 specialized stations in the state and I believe they do an NDI inspection on all welds and assembled bits.

I bet there's 50 different answers to this question in the States, and another 13 in Canada...

JThw8 wrote:

mad_machine wrote: NJ is a pain.. in order to register it as a kit.. it has to meet all current emissions and safety specs.. there is no registering a replica of a 69 Seven as a 69 Seven. NJ basically made it impossible. Heck, to register a homebuilt trailer, you have to document every single part that went into it

Not exactly. It has to meet emissions for year of the donor motor, kills with VW kits that used aftermarket motors because they aren't stamped with a serial number to indicate the date. "Some guy I knew" may or may not have borrowed the motor from a friends VW for the inspection since his didn't have a serial number. We dont have safety inspection anymore so that's not an issue but even when we did it was lights, belts, brakes, I really don't mind that kind of stuff being checked. But you are correct, not just for trailers but for kit/assembled cars as well you must have receipts for everything, titles for all donor cars and it must have an inspection upon completion by one of only 3 specialized stations in the state and I believe they do an NDI inspection on all welds and assembled bits.

hmm.. that is different than I was told by a DMV office manager. I wanted to build a Seven replica and use one of my Fiat twin cams for power.. was told I basically could not do it because it needed to meet the current emissions standards... which is something a Fiat Twin Cam could never hope to do

mad_machine wrote:

JThw8 wrote:

mad_machine wrote: NJ is a pain.. in order to register it as a kit.. it has to meet all current emissions and safety specs.. there is no registering a replica of a 69 Seven as a 69 Seven. NJ basically made it impossible. Heck, to register a homebuilt trailer, you have to document every single part that went into it

Not exactly. It has to meet emissions for year of the donor motor, kills with VW kits that used aftermarket motors because they aren't stamped with a serial number to indicate the date. "Some guy I knew" may or may not have borrowed the motor from a friends VW for the inspection since his didn't have a serial number. We dont have safety inspection anymore so that's not an issue but even when we did it was lights, belts, brakes, I really don't mind that kind of stuff being checked. But you are correct, not just for trailers but for kit/assembled cars as well you must have receipts for everything, titles for all donor cars and it must have an inspection upon completion by one of only 3 specialized stations in the state and I believe they do an NDI inspection on all welds and assembled bits.

hmm.. that is different than I was told by a DMV office manager. I wanted to build a Seven replica and use one of my Fiat twin cams for power.. was told I basically could not do it because it needed to meet the current emissions standards... which is something a Fiat Twin Cam could never hope to do

DMV office managers don't know their own rules, many times I've had to look up the regs myself and bring them with me. For instance there's the "collectors" registration which allows no inspection registration for collectible vehicles which are NEWER than the 25 year cutoff for historic registration. I spent an hour arguing with the DMV managers because my car was NEWER than 25 years and they insisted collectors registration was for cars older than 25 years. I finally had to go print out the regs and show them their own rules.

There are still to many other hoops to jump through for me to ever consider a self built in NJ.

So Keith, what is the root of the issue with the Atom in TexASS? Is it because they were trying to sell complete turn key cars? If that's the case then no problem, they don't meet full type approval so they should be banned. If they were built as kit cars then it shouldn't be an issue.

I can't believe that SEMA hasn't taken this up at a National / Federal level and pushed for some kind of national standard for kits cars.

The UK has very clearly defined rules for kits, home built and heavily modified cars or cars that have been imported that aren't sold in the UK such as Mustangs prior tot he new S550. They have to go through a thing called SVA (Single Vehicle Approval). It checks all the safety related stuff, legal compliance for lights, brakes tires, checks for sharp edges etc etc. Once issued you get a licence plate and you're good to go forever. We need something like that over here.

P.S. I've never understood Arial atom fever. It was a ca that was designed as a styling exercise and while incredibly well made I think there are some major floors in it's design. It really strikes me as polishing a pig. A great car for 25% of the price.