I drive a manual 99% of the time. I got into my wife's Edge the other day and started pushing in the non-existent clutch.
My wife learned to drive on a manual but has had automatics for years.
She says "don't worry , I forget and look for the clutch sometimes when I'm in a hurry".
frenchyd said:A Jaguar with an automatic is boring!! A Jaguar with a manual is fun. PS Jaguars tend to be heavy. An XJS V12 is 4200 pounds.
Depends on the Jag. The late model sports cars are pretty fun despite having an automatic. The paddle-shift ZF trans is a good compromise between enthusiast driving and everyday drivability.
Chris_V said:z31maniac said:Chris_V said:Patrick said:secretariata said:Patrick said:I’ve never once driven a crisp shifting automatic...
This is a limitation in my experience with automatic transmissions. I have only owned and driven a few vehicles with automatics and most have been pretty basic appliances or trucks. I have only driven a "sporty" automatic once and it was stuck in "asshat" mode where it would not upshift until you got very close to redline. So cruising around had the thing being obnoxious at 5k rpm's. Biggest things that bother me when driving a vehicle with an automatic transmission is that there is no engine braking and I occasionally hit that super extra wide brake pedal when I forget and try to push in the clutch pedal...
The new 8 speed getrag box is pretty awesome at knowing exactly where to be and keeping the engine perfectly in the powerband. The older 4 speed gm transmissions are transformed completely with a little change to the programming. It’s night and day difference from the lazy pickup truck shifts
The bolded is important. Car enthusiasts think nothing of modding the suspension to work better, modding the engine for more performance, etc, but think that an automatic is a magic box that can't be touched. Most domestic transmissions have had shift improver and valve body kits available for decades and it's EASY to reprogram the transmission for better, more predictable shifting, to hold gears until told to shift, to shift instantly when you move the lever, etc. And usually those modifications were CHEAP. A TH400 or 700R4 or C6 or AOD or Mopar trans could be seriously transformed for under $100. And many imported transmissions could benefit from similar reprogramming.
I built the AOD in my V8 RX7 to shift instantly, only when I wanted it to, up or downshifting and holding it in gear as long as the lever was in that gear position. And it was done for about $45 in parts. Gave me an automatic for driving the car on the street, and a semi automatic when I wanted to autocross it. it had no problem with engine braking.
And yes, there are a lot of good automatics out there that match the nature of the car, The steptronic in my E38 is one of them. Even the steptonic in my 330ci ZHP is perfectly matched to the car and engine. And it does engine braking like a champ.
How does "removing the transmission and changing the valve body" equate to "reprogramming?"
All you usually have to do is pull the pan and filter and then the valve body is right there. Why is it that people will rebuild an entire engine to make more power, but balk at doing a valve body mod? Hmm? That's my point: enthusiasts will pull an engine and rebuild it with stronger parts, disassemble a front or rear suspension to install better parts, etc, but won't touch an automatic trans saying that it's too hard or too scary or that it simply only works in stock form.
Let's clean the points and change the jets too!
In the age of the modern computer controlled automobile, MOST people equate "reprogramming," to a software change. Not a hardware change.
In other words, to "reprogram" the DME in my 135i, I simply hook up a computer to the car using an OBD-II cable and install a new software calibration to run more boost, more fuel, change the ignition and/or cam timing, E85, etc. Not change physical hard parts.
z31maniac said:Your man card, according to this forum.
Usually said by someone who isant a good driver and will never win anything in their life.
there is fireplace here filled with trophies my dad won with a th400 427 corvette with both the stock 390 ho engine and the tripower race engine. And there was also a couple of ice dice championships won with a 95 hp corvair powerglide. And with the corvette on time in Montana in prepared he won beating a fully gutted corvette with a that had a manual and a heavily modified small block. My dads car has automatic,full interior,power steering,ac,luggage rack,hitch etc. And he also has a 2003 z06.
this is a great list for anyone who wants to bring up the man card. Or I can also mention that back in the day all of carroll Shelby’s personal cars he built had automatics.
Man card arguments are silly. Drive what you enjoy. For me, I enjoy the more interactive nature of driving a manual. Some prefer autos, why should I care?
Different strokes for different folks.
Joe Gearin said:Man card arguments are silly. Drive what you enjoy. For me, I enjoy the more interactive nature of driving a manual. Some prefer autos, why should I care?
Different strokes for different folks.
I don't prefer autos, I simply don't discount them or avoid them in otherwise fun cars (especially cars that only come as autos, like my E38 Sport, which is quite fun and engaging, even with the automatic)
I mean, my grandma drove a stick shift car and she didn't care about cars. Shifting does NOT make you special or unique or even a man. 
z31maniac said:Chris_V said:z31maniac said:Chris_V said:Patrick said:secretariata said:Patrick said:I’ve never once driven a crisp shifting automatic...
This is a limitation in my experience with automatic transmissions. I have only owned and driven a few vehicles with automatics and most have been pretty basic appliances or trucks. I have only driven a "sporty" automatic once and it was stuck in "asshat" mode where it would not upshift until you got very close to redline. So cruising around had the thing being obnoxious at 5k rpm's. Biggest things that bother me when driving a vehicle with an automatic transmission is that there is no engine braking and I occasionally hit that super extra wide brake pedal when I forget and try to push in the clutch pedal...
The new 8 speed getrag box is pretty awesome at knowing exactly where to be and keeping the engine perfectly in the powerband. The older 4 speed gm transmissions are transformed completely with a little change to the programming. It’s night and day difference from the lazy pickup truck shifts
The bolded is important. Car enthusiasts think nothing of modding the suspension to work better, modding the engine for more performance, etc, but think that an automatic is a magic box that can't be touched. Most domestic transmissions have had shift improver and valve body kits available for decades and it's EASY to reprogram the transmission for better, more predictable shifting, to hold gears until told to shift, to shift instantly when you move the lever, etc. And usually those modifications were CHEAP. A TH400 or 700R4 or C6 or AOD or Mopar trans could be seriously transformed for under $100. And many imported transmissions could benefit from similar reprogramming.
I built the AOD in my V8 RX7 to shift instantly, only when I wanted it to, up or downshifting and holding it in gear as long as the lever was in that gear position. And it was done for about $45 in parts. Gave me an automatic for driving the car on the street, and a semi automatic when I wanted to autocross it. it had no problem with engine braking.
And yes, there are a lot of good automatics out there that match the nature of the car, The steptronic in my E38 is one of them. Even the steptonic in my 330ci ZHP is perfectly matched to the car and engine. And it does engine braking like a champ.
How does "removing the transmission and changing the valve body" equate to "reprogramming?"
All you usually have to do is pull the pan and filter and then the valve body is right there. Why is it that people will rebuild an entire engine to make more power, but balk at doing a valve body mod? Hmm? That's my point: enthusiasts will pull an engine and rebuild it with stronger parts, disassemble a front or rear suspension to install better parts, etc, but won't touch an automatic trans saying that it's too hard or too scary or that it simply only works in stock form.
Let's clean the points and change the jets too!
In the age of the modern computer controlled automobile, MOST people equate "reprogramming," to a software change. Not a hardware change.
In other words, to "reprogram" the DME in my 135i, I simply hook up a computer to the car using an OBD-II cable and install a new software calibration to run more boost, more fuel, change the ignition and/or cam timing, E85, etc. Not change physical hard parts.
I was referring to changing shift times and line pressures in the computer program for the likes of the 4L60-e and the like. But “shift kits” have long been called “reprogramming kits” by places like b&m. You’re programming with an abacus instead of a laptop. It literally took me 2 minutes to change the shifts in the computer program when i LS swapped the datsun. And being that i’m trying to see just what i can do, i took the stock shift times which were darn near a full second and set them to 0 so it hits 2nd and 3rd immediately when called to do so.
Nothing for me, I've owned several of both and aside from the Honda I've owned auto and manual versions of the same car. The turbo mustang was fun with the manual but was more consistent and almost 4/10s faster in a quarter mile with a c4. If the car has a decent torque curve I'm perfectly happy with an auto.
I don't care what people think reprogramming means. There are kits with no electronic anything that say reprogramming kit right on the box and it's asinine to get after someone for calling something what it is literally called. Except in the case of the guy who invented GIFs pronouncing it dead-ass wrong. I'll give him a piece of my mind!
usually those modifications were CHEAP. A TH400 or 700R4 or C6 or AOD or Mopar trans could be seriously transformed for under $100.
There's a dark other side to that coin which is the torque converter. If it's 'wrong' it really kills the fun factor of a vehicle (although it matters less and less with more and more gear ratios) and it is very inexact and expensive in both time and money to change it.
Also, even though 'shift kits/reprogramming kits' are fairly cheap, valve bodies aren't necessarily cheap to replace when you botch one in the attempt of installing a kit. If I asked everyone on GRM forums who knows someone who can't drill a straight/clean hole or are poor at following directions to raise their hand , that would give you a good idea of how many people have a decent shot of utterly ruining a valve body in the attempt to install a shift kit.
Anyone here ever tried one of those paddle shift kits for electronic automatic transmissions? looks like they ain't terribly expensive now and they look to be able to be used on the majority of transmissions.
I think that if I had a well tuned paddle shift mode on a auto I would be mostly happy.
Vigo said:I don't care what people think reprogramming means. There are kits with no electronic anything that say reprogramming kit right on the box and it's asinine to get after someone for calling something what it is literally called. Except in the case of the guy who invented GIFs pronouncing it dead-ass wrong. I'll give him a piece of my mind!
usually those modifications were CHEAP. A TH400 or 700R4 or C6 or AOD or Mopar trans could be seriously transformed for under $100.
There's a dark other side to that coin which is the torque converter. If it's 'wrong' it really kills the fun factor of a vehicle (although it matters less and less with more and more gear ratios) and it is very inexact and expensive in both time and money to change it.
Also, even though 'shift kits/reprogramming kits' are fairly cheap, valve bodies aren't necessarily cheap to replace when you botch one in the attempt of installing a kit. If I asked everyone on GRM forums who knows someone who can't drill a straight/clean hole or are poor at following directions to raise their hand , that would give you a good idea of how many people have a decent shot of utterly ruining a valve body in the attempt to install a shift kit.
In case of the torque converter the stall speed ofcourse has a big effect on performance. Many automatic transmissions have a stall speed in the 1800 rpm range. Good for engines that have lots of low end torque not for ones that are higher revving etc. Take the corvair powerglide it had the typical 1600 to 1800 stall which made for sluggish off the line with the original 4 carb 140 hp engines. So gm created a 4 carb 140 engine with the 95 hp torque cam retarded 4 degrees make use of the secondary carbs. Now people have used a high stall in them and had great acceleration off the line. With my cobalt which has the 155 hp 2.2 ecotec and the 4 speed automatic it has a factory stall in the 2400 to 2500 range so it is great off the line and always responsive acceleration.
Technically , twin clutch,DSG.PDK's are not automatic transmissions. Manual automatically shifted. In most cases these will outperform a TC automatic
Technically , twin clutch,DSG.PDK's are not automatic transmissions. Manual automatically shifted. In most cases these will outperform a TC automatic
I think automated manuals are still automatics. I know it's semantics but the same thinking that says DCTs aren't autos could be stretched to say that every Honda auto from 1980-2000+ is a 'wet clutch automated manual' and nobody says that. I do sometimes use the term 'planetary (gearset) based automatic' to distinguish between what we tend to think of as automatics, and other types of arrangements that shift automatically but work completely differently.
MotorsportsGordon said:z31maniac said:Your man card, according to this forum.
Usually said by someone who isant a good driver and will never win anything in their life.
there is fireplace here filled with trophies my dad won with a th400 427 corvette with both the stock 390 ho engine and the tripower race engine. And there was also a couple of ice dice championships won with a 95 hp corvair powerglide. And with the corvette on time in Montana in prepared he won beating a fully gutted corvette with a that had a manual and a heavily modified small block. My dads car has automatic,full interior,power steering,ac,luggage rack,hitch etc. And he also has a 2003 z06.
That’s cool, but my Dad’s car is still faster than your Dad’s car.
So let's say that I have a challenge eligible AT Honda but no room in the budget for a swap. Is there a manual shift body that could work? (Something Korean maybe) Also, would finding a tc with a higher stall help? (Because V tech yo)
poopshovel again said:MotorsportsGordon said:z31maniac said:Your man card, according to this forum.
Usually said by someone who isant a good driver and will never win anything in their life.
there is fireplace here filled with trophies my dad won with a th400 427 corvette with both the stock 390 ho engine and the tripower race engine. And there was also a couple of ice dice championships won with a 95 hp corvair powerglide. And with the corvette on time in Montana in prepared he won beating a fully gutted corvette with a that had a manual and a heavily modified small block. My dads car has automatic,full interior,power steering,ac,luggage rack,hitch etc. And he also has a 2003 z06.
That’s cool, but my Dad’s car is still faster than your Dad’s car.
Lol the autocross engine in the 69 has a 12 to 1 427 tripower with I think the zl1 427/ls7 454 type cam. It’s probably upwards of 600hp as it has hooker header side pipes. Looking at some solid results from back then he beat the 4 speeds even more on a road course type track then he did in the parking lot ones.
All of my cars have manuals except the Jensen Interceptor which only came with an auto, and I wouldn't be buying any automatics myself although my wife has one. If I had to commute in heavy traffic every day, I might decide that I needed a boring auto car for that as a manual isn't any fun in that situation.
I prefer a manual in my Saturns for fun, and when towing with my trucks, for better control, better mileage, and because I know the transmission isn't as likely to break or overheat.
In my offroad Jeeps, manuals are fun and much better on downhills, but I feel automatics are better for most of what I do.
Sports cars, usually manual. Musclecars, I've owned and loved both, but I've only loved the autos with higher stall converters and modified valve bodies, if not full manual valve bodies.
I have a Clutchflite that I really need to find something that it belongs in, but I'm pretty sure aside from the novelty, it will be the worst of both worlds, with some extra bad manners thrown in for good measure. But I have come to the realization that I am an Automotive Masochist. (AM™)
So let's say that I have a challenge eligible AT Honda but no room in the budget for a swap. Is there a manual shift body that could work? (Something Korean maybe) Also, would finding a tc with a higher stall help? (Because V tech yo)
Shift kits for various older automatics often include instructions for an optional 'full manual' conversion. Look up what trans your car has, look up "[your trans here] shift kit" and then try to find a PDF of the instructions for the kits available and see if they mention a full manual option.
It's possible to rig any automatic to not shift itself (or not shift itself under conditions which will ever actually occur), but figuring that out yourself requires some commitment.
^If its an electronically controlled trans, you may be able to accomplish most of what you are looking for without opening it up. I've seen some Saturn guys do it with relays & whatnot for a dedicated drag box. A better solution seems like MS GPIO
Some autos are garbage for hard driving on winding roads - if you are hung out in a corner at the edge of adhesion (on a road course, obviously, as I'd mever advocate driving that hard on public streets) the absolute last thing you need is for the aotomatic to throw a shift and potentially break traction.
The autos that shift with a tap of the lever, up and down, and will not shift on their own when in that mode (e.g. Mazda) are quite decent.
Many cars sell more autos than manuals even with sports cars. The Solstice/Sky is one of those and the autos accelerate as fast or faster than the manuals - the manual shift cars only equal the autos with an optional program that automatilly lets off the accelerator when you shift at certain (high) rpm, allowing you to keep your foot to the floor - a practice that makes me nervous!
An added feature of manual shift is that most current thieves are incapable of driving, and thus stealing them....
You'll need to log in to post.
